Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[Carnis]

Great topic about Nurgle. I think I've learned a lot.

One thing I'm still thinking about is my starting roster. The beast, 4 warriors, 1 pestigor, 5 rotters and 2 RR build seems to suffer a little on offense. Wouldn't it be better to use a beast, 3 warriors, 2 pestigors, 5 rotters and 2RR with 30K banked? Otherwise I'm sure the lone pestigor will take a beating. And it might be nice to have a second player with MA 6.

I know the warriors skill up is slow (I've been playing lizards and it's the same with sauruses) and it's important to have many from the start. But does the lone pestigor work?

Yes, lone pestigor is brilliant. Gets to use his horns every turn. No reason to carry ball with a pestigor until you've got two (rotters better). The only issue I got with that 1+4 setup is the 2 RRs. I frequently need 3 or more early with no block, no sh, no ag4..

[mattgslater]

Yeah, in my mind that's the dilemma: do you suck early because you don't have the TRRs? Or do you suck in the midseason because you forfeit 20% of your Warrior/Beast development over an average of 3 games?

In an open format, take the 4 Warriors and 2 TRRs, then play up 100k+ in the first match or two, so you can induce Extra Training.

[Smeborg]

Kwakkie - I have found the Beast/4 Warriors/1 Pestigor/5 Rotters/2 RR roster to be much better in practice than other rosters that I have tried.

It gives you resilience through maximised ST, AV and F-App, and (importantly) gives you maximum D-Pres from the start. This allows both your offense and defense to work in a "Nurgly" way right from the start.

You just buy 3 Pestigors and a Re-roll, and you have a complete team. Dead and damaged Rotters should only be replaced after you have at least 3 Pestigors on the roster.

[number6]

I really believe finding a way to start with more than 1 Pestigor is huge. My opinion of course, against the popular opinion. I've found that having scoring ability has been my boon, and Pestigors provide. I'm now 4 / 1 / 1. third in the league behind 2 Skaven teams (oh how I loathe them Skaven). For me the key was the versatility of the Pestigors, It's partly playstyle, which no guide or forum can provide This is only the second time playing in a league for me
I bought all my strength players in the Warriors within 5 games, by winning with a loose cage of Pestigors who could pick up the ball, and Blitz/Score when I wanted them to.
I just didn't feel putting in effort/time into Rotters was worth it. They seem disposable to me.

My main quandary is how to get SPP for the BoN who just ties ppl up?
Hope for MVP?
I burn his blocks if I know I do not need to rely on him.
Heck my warriors are suffering a drought, and thus do less than their potential to mitigate their lack of Skillz....ouch....

[Carnis]

My main quandary is how to get SPP for the BoN who just ties ppl up?

Spam 3die blocks, when he isnt positioned well. Another reason I prefer standfirm/guard over break tackling BoN..

I'm testing a 4 NW 3 Pest start in stunty atm, cause that maximizes your chance of getting MVP to a useful player and gives you 7 regen to start with which is almost like having 2 apoths in the game..

Nurgle's a weak player the first 10 games regardless of what you do.

[Smeborg]

number6 - patience and 3 dice blocks are the only way to skill up the Beast. I like to take a 3 dice block with him on the first turn of my offense as often as not. If you are blocking with him, it can be a good idea to do it as the last action of the turn.

I find that Nurgle under-perform until they have at least 8 of the 9 positional players in their starting roster for a game. That's why I like the 1/4/1/5 roster. You buy 2 more Pestigors and the team will then start to stabilise in both numbers and performance.

[number6]

Semi-RANT....

I'm not sure I'm 100% here. I agree that the numbers are definitely a much better guide than raw empiricism, especially considering the lousy sample size and BB coaches' tendency to work off of memory (after all, it's a game, and taking notes sort of defeats the purpose). But frequently the math doesn't tell the whole story, and it's hard to be sure you've got all your factors.

So this is all subjective and qualitative? ... I thank you if this is the concept, as I'm tired of absolute numbers being a guide to strategy for this game. I understand statistical odds, but a coaches flavor of play can account for a lot more, they can skew those odds a lot. The "art" of statistics is just that, it is reasonably qualitative

I find a much bigger challenge is keeping the whole net intact, maintaining Disturbing Presence on any potential receivers while still making my blocks and marks.

Ok, so this is something I've had some difficulty with. I've put DP on 2 Rotters who I put out on defense against passing/AG/High Move teams (as tempting as the Rotter w/ Wrestle is, he's always been outta position vs. a ball carrier... sigh).
It's tough to cover all the bases. I find that I can coat the field at -1, which is ok, but it just means AG 4 teams are rolling like a Non-AG team. It seems more Meta-gaming to me. I am using it as a means of Meta-gaming (do you wanna do this, your odds are lower. heckle heckle), but in playtesting against a more "go for it" friend he just said "heck, let's do this". He had MV9 GR's and AG4 with Dodge and his opinion was even in the event of a missed pass/turnover for my team to convert and score will be tough. Thus his Skaven still went for the passing play, and won.
I'm sure there is no way to prevent this, and I think a spread out defense is fine considering the eventual STR of the Nurgle, but DP is to my mind, less effective satistically than it is mentally (Meta-game). It's far too tough to negate high AG / Move teams, and they will in all likelyhood eat one up if the coaches are of equal skill.... probably an obvious statement on my behalf.
I'm planning on taking a lot of Tackle soon to negate this Dodgyness, but considering my front-liners (Nurgle Warriors) skill up so slowly, it'll take a long while before I'm effective at stopping these opponents.
Thankfully I can pick and choose SSP for the Pestigors, so I can tailor them, thus why I honestly feel they are best to start out with... at least x3. Get them effective sooner. They play so many potential roles, it's almost too upsetting to the team that only 4 are permitted.

[Ullis]

I find that I can coat the field at -1, which is ok, but it just means AG 4 teams are rolling like a Non-AG team. It seems more Meta-gaming to me. I am using it as a means of Meta-gaming (do you wanna do this, your odds are lower. heckle heckle), but in playtesting against a more "go for it" friend he just said "heck, let's do this".

Even Khemri team can go for a quick passing play. Sometimes it works, but more often not. The difference between a AG3 and AG4 teams for ball handling are immense. The probability of something going wrong, even with a reroll fall from 1 in 36 to 1 in 9. I think that's one of the main weaknesses of the human roster. The team looks like it can play a passing game with throwers and catchers, but in reality it's very unpredictable even in the medium run (without at least one right skill on each positional).

I've found that the best use of Disturbing Presence is not in coating the whole pitch with -1, but creating a few areas with -2 or -3. For example, if the skaven team creates a pocket in your side of the pitch with a GR waiting for a hand off in the middle you normally have to either blitz the pocket open to get TZ's on the GR or then create a strong screen to make sure that the GR can't dodge through. But with Disturbing Presence you can leave the GR unmarked but with multiple DP's on him. Then your own blitz can be used somewhere else and the skaven cannot blitz the DP-threat off the GR or open a hole in a defensive screen. Of course for this to work reliably you need all the warriors and the beast on the pitch. I find that losing even one DP player from the pitch makes positioning the DP's much harder.

[Carnis]

Ok, so this is something I've had some difficulty with. I've put DP on 2 Rotters who I put out on defense against passing/AG/High Move teams (as tempting as the Rotter w/ Wrestle is, he's always been outta position vs. a ball carrier... sigh).

I am using it as a means of Meta-gaming (do you wanna do this, your odds are lower. heckle heckle), but in playtesting against a more "go for it" friend he just said "heck, let's do this". He had MV9 GR's and AG4 with Dodge and his opinion was even in the event of a missed pass/turnover for my team to convert and score will be tough. Thus his Skaven still went for the passing play, and won.

I wouldnt ever pick a non-blocking skill on the general rotters (dirty player excluded) due to the fieldrole I have used them for. They are zombies for me, with AG3 options and +1 MA. I rarely if ever use wrestle versus ballcarriers, but find it tremendously useful against Block players in general. I'd consider Dist Pres as skill #2 or #3.. maybe.

The reason I don't rate DP very high is, that high MA or AG counters it too easily. A competent elf coach can hand off outside DP Range, then run through your 7square DP zone & do a quickpass.. Or alternatively pass to an AG5 player, who just ignores the DP anyway. Of the two NW skills I find foul appearance to have more gameplay significance, especially as my LOS is always beast+2 NWs.

Regarding your second experience. That kind of "go for it" coaches are the most prone to DP ruining their games.. They might do a -2 pass or a catch without thinking it over & hand you over the game for free. Especially skaven, who have no pass or catch. Too bad nuffle was on his side.. Generally, I wouldn't advertise my dp coverage until he's about to make the dice, it'll ruin his metagame even more . "Can I take it back, I didnt think it over" etc..

[mattgslater]

I'm finding 5x DP is plenty. I don't always have all routes covered, no, but I have the best routes covered, effectively making the other guy slower because he has to do something suboptimal to avoid a penalty.

Definitely, though, the threat of FA/DP is bigger than the actuality of it. My opponents have lost all respect for Foul Appearance, which seems to have gone on strike (I've sustained about 45 blocks on my Warriors and Beast this season and FA has worked twice). Disturbing Presence has yet to change the outcome of a roll for me, but that's because it usually terrifies the opponent into not passing, which is a lot of why my Nurgle haven't lost yet.

[Smeborg]

D-Pres: I agree with Ullis that you need to create webs of -2, -3 and -4. This comes with practice, and is not as difficult as it may sound.

F-App: My experience of this skill is that it is very random in its application (a bit like sweltering heat - lots of rolls of 1). You will go whole halves, or even whole games, without F-App working, then one of two things happens. Either you get a cluster of 2 or 3 F-App rolls of 1 in a row, or you get a single roll of 1 at a critical point, such as early in one of your opponent's more important turns. While not necessarily game-breaking, these events help a lot.

Like D-Pres and Tentacles, one of the more subtle, but important, effects of F-App is to consume your opponent's re-rolls. This messes with his head and grinds him down. You still need to do the hard yards such as scoring and fetching the ball, but F-App helps you out when you don't expect it, for example when you might otherwise lose a drive.

[mattgslater]

In five games for my current Nurgle squad, FA has stopped a gratuitous half-die block, stopped one of two blocks a guy had lined up and made him waste an action to no real effect (the second block got the knockdown), and made a guy use one of his five TRRs to do what he wanted to do, with no resulting turnover later. That's it. My opponents have just no fear of it whatsoever. The first two games, they were very ginger with my FA guys, scheming to hit the Rotters instead. But now they all make jokes about it.

Even so, I haven't lost yet. Five games, two wins, three ties, 300k+ underdog against all but the first opponent. Yesterday I pulled off a 1-1 tie (and should have won 2-1, but I took 6 casualties) against a 1.89M Undead team with ST6 Mummies, two ST4 guys and Dodge on both Wights.* Before that, I put a 3-1 smackdown on the scary, b'dass 1.78M Skaven (that's 1.78M with 12 guys and 3 RRs... do the math). And I have like a TV of 1.25M (less now after a Rotter died last match, and I have a missing Pestigor). So while they may not be offensive powerhouses, Nurgle can work even if one of their major elements goes belly-up. But they're developing like molasses. All their Cas come off of fouls and Grashnak (who is a game-breaker, btw, though last game he just took out a Zombie and got BH'ed early), and they have just six skills in five games, though there are four guys close to going up. I've never had a team get only six skills in five games.

*All 6 Wights in my league have Dodge. What's up with that?

[Smeborg]

After 11 games, my Nurgle team Poetry in Motion are 9-1-1, which is one of my best ever league performances by any race. The loss was to well-developed Orcs, the draw against Necros. This is what the team looks like:

Beast: Block (12)
Warrior: +1ST (9)
Warrior: Block (9)
Warrior: Block (7)
Warrior: -
Pestigor: +1AG, +1ST, Dodge (40)
Pestigor: Wrestle (14)
Pestigor: Wrestle (10)
Pestigor: Wrestle (6)
Rotter: Block (14)
Rotter: - (5)
Rotter: - (5)
Rotter: -
Rotter: -
Rotter -
2 x TRR
8 x FF
Treasury: 110,000
TV: 164

They have lost 5 players to deaths and retirements (1 Warrior and 4 Rotters, one of whom had Block, Guard). They are undoubtedly a lucky team, with their stat increases and doubles, and the same applies to their results (many of their TDs have been scrambled in on turns 8 or 16). Having a ST4 ball carrier is a great luxury, as it obviates the need for a Guarded cage. No doubt he will die a spectacular death at some point.

Development is surprisingly even (with the exception of the uber-Pest). The team seems to have reached its first development plateau, with only 2 or 3 players close to their next skill. Interestingly, only 1 player has more than 1 skill. I like the simplicity of the team. Obviously the next purchase will be the third and final re-roll, to complete the roster. I will consider a 15th player later in the season, however, 14 players seems right for now. The Pestigors are standard targets for opponents, so it's good to have got the 3rd Wrestler.

Standard planned development paths for this season (some new things for me) are:

Beast: Stand Firm
Warriors: Block, Stand Firm
Pestigors: Wrestle, Fend, Tackle
Rotters: Block, Fend, F-App (Guard on doubles)

[number6]

F-App: My experience of this skill is that it is very random in its application (a bit like sweltering heat - lots of rolls of 1). You will go whole halves, or even whole games, without F-App working, then one of two things happens. Either you get a cluster of 2 or 3 F-App rolls of 1 in a row, or you get a single roll of 1 at a critical point, such as early in one of your opponent's more important turns. While not necessarily game-breaking, these events help a lot.

Clearly it is random in its application (I Razz I Razz)
Although your view of it doing nothing for whole halves, games, seems more accurate. I've had it go twice where I got 2 in a row, and then the drought began again It did however frustrate my opponent, so I gained some glee from that.
It has burned re-rolls, but nothing the opposing coach needed, as they were just making opportunistic Blocks.
It has yet to be game breaking, and it has legitimately happened less than it should statistically

I know another coach playing Nurgle and his experience with FA is the same. It happens once in a while, but not as much as it should.

[number6]

So game 7 against an Elf team (really good coach) and my second loss. 4w, 2L, 1T
It was pouring rain, and he had a Leaping+Stripballing blitzer who was far too effective (escaped Tentacles 2 for 3). It was a respectable 3-2 loss with x3 causalties for myself, but the high AG and MA was tough to mitigate. I did however suffer some terrible turnovers (e.g. initial almost surefire 2d Block (w/ Block), double skulls... reroll... double skulls, sigh).
However, the lack of natural 9 MA made his team somehow more tolerable than the Skaven. If not for the pouring rain, I think the game would have gone much better for myself.... that ball was far too slippery, even with Extra Arms

I'll be trying to "paint" specific zones of the field now with -2/-3, to try to move my opponent where I want them. Possibly a flawed concept, but I've been using the 2 DP Rotters (defensive) on the field as Block assists, BON 'Trainers' and other supportive rolls, hence the DP choice on 2 of em. At least if on their arse, they are still doing something.


As for the advice on gaining SPP on the BON.... yeah Patience is right
Thanks for the input gentlemen. The 3dice Block finally paid off and now he can take a reg-skill... albeit they did only have 7 AV