Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[Marlow]

I have just finished my sixth game with Nurgle and lost all of them. A couple were almost draws which is the best I have managed. Still only have one Pestigore on the team at the moment so that is not helping but do not have enough cash for another one yet. Any suggestions for how to get the ball moving?

[Smeborg]

I have just finished my sixth game with Nurgle and lost all of them. A couple were almost draws which is the best I have managed. Still only have one Pestigore on the team at the moment so that is not helping but do not have enough cash for another one yet. Any suggestions for how to get the ball moving?

Hi Marlow, and welcome to the club. I had a similar experience when I started playing Nurgle, so do not despair.

The Nurgle offense is slow. You need to cage the ball and move it conservatively step by step upfield. Accept that it will take a lot of time to score (sometimes 7 or 8 turns), and that you might still need to take risks on the last turn. Your lone Pestigor is the best player to run with the ball (he is your fastest player and can bash his way through or get out of trouble using his Horns). Because your team is slow, you should not willingly concede space to your opponent.

Unlike other caging teams (Orcs, Dwarfs etc.), you will often not be able to control the clock and stall on offense, so you must accept that you should often score when you have the first good chance to do so (for example after 4 turns). Although this will often give your opponent time to score back, you should not mind, as you can trust your defense (which is better than other bash teams, especially when it comes to stopping your opponent scoring at will). And once you get the hang of the team, you should find that you get plenty of shutout drives on defense, as well as turnover TDs.

Try and tie up opposing players with the Beast. For example, park him next to two weak players (ST2 players, Linemen without Block). This will help your offense by giving you a temporary advantage in numbers.

I don't know how you have been spending your money, but you should not buy any new Rotters until you have got a Beast, 4 Warriors and at least 3 Pestigors. It is better to go with Journeymen than to buy Rotters before positional players. This is a different buying strategy to other teams, because of Decay vs. Regen. The Regen players will survive, the Rotters will die. So if you are spending on Rotters, you may get into a "death spiral", with Rotters being killed or retired faster than you can replace them. This happened to me until I worked out what was happening.

All the best, and let us know how you get on.

[Marlow]

I don't know how you have been spending your money, but you should not buy any new Rotters until you have got a Beast, 4 Warriors and at least 3 Pestigors. It is better to go with Journeymen than to buy Rotters before positional players. This is a different buying strategy to other teams, because of Decay vs. Regen. The Regen players will survive, the Rotters will die. So if you are spending on Rotters, you may get into a "death spiral", with Rotters being killed or retired faster than you can replace them. This happened to me until I worked out what was happening.

I am not buying Rotters. Started with three re-rolls so the only thing I have purchased so far is the Beast.

[Carnis]

matt and Carnis - I hear your arguments loud and clear about why you think S-Firm is a good skill. That's all fine. But you seem both to be arguing not only that it is a good skill, but that it is better than B-Tackle. May I ask what have your experiences been with B-Tackle on the Beast? How did he fare?

There is not really any reason to try, if you can do the maths. The philosophy that if something works in practice once or twice means it's good or if it fails in practice once or twice is bad is flawed in so many ways that I don't want to even get started.. IF I roll a 2nd double I'll consider dodge followed by BT though..

[Smeborg]

Carnis - it's just that craigtw (Spazzfist), Ullis and I have all tried B-Tackle in practice, and quite like it.

I suggest that Pro is a better double than Dodge, although of course Dodge would have its merits. As a dream exercise I was trying to work out what would be the ultimate Beast - I guess it would be Block, Dodge, Stand Firm, Pro, Break Tackle, +1ST.

[mattgslater]

There is not really any reason to try, if you can do the maths.

I'm not sure I'm 100% here. I agree that the numbers are definitely a much better guide than raw empiricism, especially considering the lousy sample size and BB coaches' tendency to work off of memory (after all, it's a game, and taking notes sort of defeats the purpose). But frequently the math doesn't tell the whole story, and it's hard to be sure you've got all your factors.

If I had a lot more time than I do, I'd set about running an alternate Nurgle team, where Break Tackle was my #1 pick for the Beast. I'd actually be inclined to take it first if I didn't get good mileage out of the rookie Beast, particularly if I found him getting man-marked over and over. But as-is, he's pretty effective in his role, and Stand Firm makes him quite a lot better at what he was already doing well. He does occasionally get marked and neutralized, but I'm not too worried about this: marking him means getting hit, and the other guy doesn't have any more men on the field than I do.

I find a much bigger challenge is keeping the whole net intact, maintaining Disturbing Presence on any potential receivers while still making my blocks and marks. I don't have to move the Beast around to do that, and I don't like moving the Beast around because it makes me roll dice and doesn't get knockdowns. So I'm going to flood the board with Stand Firm: #2 on two Pests and two Warriors (Block first on Pests, Block or Guard Warriors), #3 on the other half. My target is 7x Stand Firm in 10 matches, but that's a tall order: I'd be ok if it took me less than 15.

My intended progression on the Beast is Stand Firm - Guard - Grab - Multiple Block, unless he lags. If I'm already good on Guard when he gets to 16 SPP (unlikely), then he'll get Multiple Block, for its accelerant value. Doubles would be Block. Second doubles on the second roll would be Side Step to keep from messing with my progression, but second doubles after that would be Pro, to follow with Break Tackle.

[Smeborg]

Matt - why don't you go S-Firm, B-Tackle on your Beast instead? Then you have the best of both worlds.

[mattgslater]

'Cause the math scares me off Break Tackle. Well, that and the old axiom that you can never have enough Guard. Oh, and then there's the bit about how cool Stand Firm/Grab/Tentacles can be. And Multiblock is just killer on a ST5/Grab player in a developed Guard-heavy team.

[Carnis]

Spazz changed his firstpick to SF too, although he still prefers break tackle as pick2 & I'm ok with that. I don't like relying 3+ rolls that I cant reroll though . The guard/SF/tents/Grab thingie is indeed too good to pass up for me as well. If you can freeze the game for just 1-2 turns using your grab you can move your beast into a middle of 4+ players and they will be stuck there the rest of the half, whilst getting hit..

[Smeborg]

'Cause the math scares me off Break Tackle. Well, that and the old axiom that you can never have enough Guard. Oh, and then there's the bit about how cool Stand Firm/Grab/Tentacles can be. And Multiblock is just killer on a ST5/Grab player in a developed Guard-heavy team.

Matt, just to say from the point of view of maths (that's what we call it over here) that a dodge with B-Tackle is both more likely to succeed, and less likely to cause a turnover, than 2 blocks using M-Block.

[Smeborg]

Spazz changed his firstpick to SF too, although he still prefers break tackle as pick2 & I'm ok with that. I don't like relying 3+ rolls that I cant reroll though . The guard/SF/tents/Grab thingie is indeed too good to pass up for me as well. If you can freeze the game for just 1-2 turns using your grab you can move your beast into a middle of 4+ players and they will be stuck there the rest of the half, whilst getting hit..

I agree that the Beast's main job is to freeze opposing players. Break Tackle enables the Beast to freeze opposing players of your choice, whereas Stand Firm without Break Tackle enables you to do this only for one turn (the first turn of your offense).

I don't see the Beast as a very hitty player, because of the risk of him losing his tackle zone when you use him to block. Of course this doesn't stop him from giving opponents a good slap around the head from time to time...

I see S-Firm + B-Tackle as the ideal starting combo for the Beast - freeze who you want the way you want.

[mattgslater]

Matt, just to say from the point of view of maths (that's what we call it over here) that a dodge with B-Tackle is both more likely to succeed, and less likely to cause a turnover, than 2 blocks using M-Block.

You're right about the turnover (1/6 vs. ~1/5 after factoring out Stupid), but it's hard to classify "success" with Multiple Block. Two blocks will yield a third more blown enemy actions (50/54 = 100/108) than even an automatically successful man-mark on a BT dodge (25/36 = 75/108). That doesn't take into account the odds of Tentacles failing on the man-mark. It also doesn't game around the potential future knockdown value of Tentacles. What's more, frequently moving to mark opens up an opportunity for additional gaming by a resourceful opponent. There is no gaming around a slap to the head!

Also, the dodge with BT is also a Move with MA4, which frequently involves either limited objectives or GFIs: even one GFI flips the odds. What's more, it's possible to use Multiple Block to get twelve actions on offense. Given this team's offensive struggles, that's huge. Of course, it's a lot weaker without Grab... but with Grab, Multiple Block often turns what would be moves by other players into blocks, and turns edge-marks to square marks even more effectively than conventional block-and-follow. If the first block gets a knockdown, you can usually seal the second player out cold even in the event of a push (unless you get a KO or Cas, but no complaints there).

Oh, and I totally get UK English. Slang may throw me once in a blue moon, but if you speak Limey and I speak Yank, we'll understand each other for the most part. Unless I go too far with the American football terms; then let me know and I'll rephrase or diagram.

The Beast isn't the only player who can drop a hat on a guy. Just get the Beast into position once, and you should never have to reposition him until he finishes digesting his man. Frankly, a lot of energy spent on spamming Block/Stand Firm (and some Guard) will make it pretty much impossible for the other guy to get anywhere if you do a good job positioning the Warriors. All that S access is gnarly in the long run: this is something the team has in common with Orcs, though I'll admit it takes Nurgle a smidgeon longer to get to that point, because their nine bashers start out four skills behind (and several hard-to-compare advantages ahead to make up for it).

[Carnis]

Hey, a bit of a highjack. I got 6 skillups to take. Our 2 yearly league season has come to a finale (going thru the official tournaments every 6months), so we played BB yesterday & that granted me 91 SPP (the free MVPs x 14, random MVP, 5 CAS, 2 TD). I won the match, against a team of really hated orcs (CAS 8-2, TD 2-0). 3 of the CAS were gangfouls, 2 were MB/Claw blitzes (altho the MB/Claw pest missed 2nd half rolling 1 on sweltering heat), 2 were beast blocks with Block/MB 1 was a NW-block CAS.. He regend one and used apoth on the first 2 bhs, so there was still play on the second half.

The team (Medicalization):
1Beast Block/Guard/SF
2NW: Block, doubles - thinking of ignoring and going Guard.
3NW: Block/Guard
4NW: Block/Mighty Blow
5NW: Mighty Blow, normal skill - thinking of Block or Claw.
6PE: Block/Guard 6+6 -> STR.
7PE: Mighty Blow, Claw
8PE: Block/Dodge/Sure Hands 1 spp to skill (guard or tackle)
9PE: Mighty Blow, Tackle, 1 spp to skill (block)
10RO: Dirty Player, doubles - is sneaky git worth it, or is it just dull guard or dodge, despite his DP ?
11RO: skill - thinking Dirty Player
12RO:
13RO: DEAD (had wrestle)
14RO: Wrestle/Dirty Player MNG/-ST - thinking of firing.
15RO: skill - thinking of Wrestle

5RRs, thinking of sacking one.
9 FF, 1coach & cheer

Anyone got any better ideas? Especially comments about sneaky git as a double welcome ?

[Smeborg]

Not how I would develop the side, but I'm happy with all your choices, except:

5NW - Claw is better only if you know you will face lots of AV9 in what's left of your season.

10 Ro - I think S-Git is worth it in this case.

11 Ro - I think 2 DPs on a team is sufficient. Wrestle would be better.

Hope that helps.

Always nice to smack Orcs. Well done.

[Kwakkie]

Great topic about Nurgle. I think I've learned a lot.

One thing I'm still thinking about is my starting roster. The beast, 4 warriors, 1 pestigor, 5 rotters and 2 RR build seems to suffer a little on offense. Wouldn't it be better to use a beast, 3 warriors, 2 pestigors, 5 rotters and 2RR with 30K banked? Otherwise I'm sure the lone pestigor will take a beating. And it might be nice to have a second player with MA 6.

I know the warriors skill up is slow (I've been playing lizards and it's the same with sauruses) and it's important to have many from the start. But does the lone pestigor work?

I don't think it makes much difference on purchases after start. You'd either purchase the missing warrior or the second pestigor before the 3rd re-roll right?

FYI I'll be playing in a league of about 12 matches.