Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[Ikterus]

I get it now...

I see the possibilities in the combo but I can't say that I'm impressed...

When I see a player on the other side with Claws I tend to try to put him out of the game as soon as possible, so I can't see that claw would make the opponent block him less (especially vs dwarves)... This might chance if you stack up on Claw giving it to every player... Has that been done? Not very effective, but interesting as long as you play vs bash teams.

You suggest that Claw can be a passive skill and that's very interesting. I see the reasoning behind it but in that respect I think that Fend is a better choice.

While claw may act as a passive skill making the opponent think twice before blocking I still think that there are better skills for that purpose (Fend for one). To get the maximum value out of Claw you should do alot of hitting.

Rotters are fodder and while claw is a very interesting idea (now that I'm enlightend ) I think there are better choices for that second (read "last") skill the Rotter gets.

[Grumbledook]

If they are going out of their way to take out a rotter asap, that is another of your better players getting less attention...

[Ikterus]

If they are going out of their way to take out a rotter asap, that is another of your better players getting less attention...

True, and that might be valuable. But I feel that breeding Rotters to be targets will shorten their life span even more...

If I were the dwarf player opposing a nurgle team with a single rotter with Claws I'd go for the Claws guy right away and the point being made was that Claws would make people think twice about blocking him.

[Carnis]

I'm not sure you got my point though. I didn't intend the claws to be a passive threat. It's very very rare indeed that a CLAW on a player would make him get blocked less.

Generally I'm leaning towards the philosophy that getting 5 stuns is better than getting 2 KO/CAS. Not because it's better to get lots of stuns but because it's more predictable and thus more reliable as a strategy. So I'm leaning towards getting a lot of CLAW or MB with the intent of getting a lot of stuns, not CAS/KO as such (which are very stochastic by nature.. one game you get 1 the other game you might get 10). Stuns are extremely predictable on the other hand. It's either 41% with a CLAW or a AV7 target or 58% with MB vs AV7 or MB+CLAW. Or if you take no skills it can be very unlikely (such as 18% vs AV9).

The nurgle's best 11 consists of 1 beast, 4 NW 4 pestigor & 2 rotters. The beast & the NWs get block, never wrestle. The pestigors in my team could take wrestle, but mine prefer block with MB/Guard/Claw/Tackle/Piling On style skills.

Leaves your two rotters to pick Wrestle. They pick Wrestle as 1) a passive deterrent b) an aggressive skillchoice to be used against the aforementioned AV9/Block players (now both down brings him down too), blodge ballcarriers, blodge elves in general. Generally also on the 2nd half you may be down in NWs or Pests and then you'll be fielding rotters. Now you'll generally be glad you got wrestle on the replacement rotters, as it works against everything an experienced team brings to bear.

Then it's the 2nd rotters job to be the dirty player. This leaves me with 1-3 rotters who have a free skill. My nurgle don't use kick, so it's either claws, tackle, two-heads or fend for skill #2. I feel the CLAWS pick is the most versatile, you get benefit of it versus all the AV8 teams, whilst you already manage AV7 teams with your other players (who have Block/MB + Tackle or Piling on kind of skills). Tackle could be, but your pestigors are faster & have horns, two-heads on the right player is huge, but you are often intentionally in somebody else's TZ and your other players are the playmakers.

Probably a better developed team would be better off with two-headed rotters though, if you already have around 4-5 Block/MB/Claws players and possibly one with MB/PO/Tackle for elfhunting then the extra claws are somewhat less useful.

[mattgslater]

For me, what this says is:

"When/if your Wrestle Rotter gets to #2, if you would get more mileage from adding Claw to your toolbox than from adding Tackle, consider Claw over Tackle."

This makes sense from a mathematical perspective. Claw is a damage skill, and so on an AG3 player, you want to take a blocking skill first. It's a B skill with fair accelerant value and mediocre toolbox value, which is about the best you're going to get on a player with GM access and a blocking skill. So it's not crazy that you'd take it as a #2 skill unless you had a hole at some key skill need, like not having a kicker or not having enough Tackle.

This argument has persuaded me that on a single player with M access, it's ok to load up a maneater with Wrestle instead of Block. I'd still try to develop a killer with Block, but for Nurgle that guy is a Pestigor. I do think Claw has #2 potential on a Rotter with Block or Wrestle if you have your key G skill players and any of the following is true:
you don't have any/enough Claw, or
you face mostly AV8+, or
you're spamming damage skills, or
your best opponents are the heavy ones.

[Craigtw]

I'm not sure you got my point though. I didn't intend the claws to be a passive threat. It's very very rare indeed that a CLAW on a player would make him get blocked less.

Totally disagree - I see it happen a lot.

Granted the Claw can sometimes have the opposite effect as well (opponents will just want to get rid of him), but as was stated by GD, that means less pressure on your positionals.

[mattgslater]

Here's how I'm thinking of developing when I actually run Nurgle in a season.
Initial build: 4x NW, 1x Pest, 1x Beast, 5x Rotters, 2x TRR
Purchases: Pest, TRR, Pest, TRR, Pest, ACs and CLs to keep up with the Joneses.

Development:
Beast: Stand Firm, Grab, Guard, Break Tackle (Block, Pro, +ST creates no deviation)
NW1: Block, Guard, Grab, Stand Firm (midfield, migrates to line on getting Guard)
NW2: Guard, Block, Stand Firm, Break Tackle (line)
NW3: Block, Guard, Stand Firm (line)
NW4: Block, Stand Firm, Tentacles, Tackle (line, migrates to midfield when NW1 gets Guard)
Doubles: Dodge, with Block, Stand Firm to follow
+ST: Replace #4 with +ST, Tentacles, Block, Stand Firm (midfield)

Pest 1: Block, Mighty Blow, Tackle or Claw, Stand Firm, Piling On (Dodge)
Pest 2: Wrestle, Frenzy, Tackle, Stand Firm, Prehensile Tail or toolbox skill (Jump Up or Side Step)
Pest 3: Block, Sure Hands, Extra Arms, Two Heads (Dodge)
Pest 4: Block, Extra Arms, Stand Firm or toolbox, toolbox (Dodge)
Doubles 1st skill: Side Step, Block, Tackle, Mighty Blow, Piling On (Dodge)
10: +MA, use Pest 4 template
11: +AG, replace Pest 3. +AG, Block, Sure Hands, Strong Arm (Dodge)
12: +ST, replace Pest 4. +ST, Block, Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, Two Heads (Dodge)

Rotter 1: Extra Arms, Block, Kick-off Return
Rotter 2: Block, Kick, toolbox
Rotter 3: Wrestle, Tackle, toolbox
Rotter 4: Block, toolbox
Rotter 5: Wrestle, toolbox
Doubles: Guard (sorry, buddy) or Dodge
10: Ignore unless replacing extraneous toolbox; then take MA on 1, 3 or 5 or AV on 2 or 4.
11: +AG, Block, Pro or Sure Hands
12: +ST, Block, Claw

[Carnis]

Dont have time to post longer but..

1: 0 Guard on pestigors, strange.
2: Also, I will say I rate two-heads as a spam skill on the pests later on very highly (2+ dodge, horns blitzes anywhere).
3: Why SF on the killer, he already runs out of skills without it (Jugger, Jump up, Frenzy etc).
4: And most importantly (and not nurgle specific), why does nobody take Frenzy to ST4 blockers here, although in FUMBBL tons of people are willing to spend doubles on BOBs/mummies etc with frenzy.
5: KOR/X-arms/Block rotter, interesting to say the least. Doubt he'll ever make it to skill #3 though .

[ShriekBob]

My current plan: -

Beast: Stand Firm, Guard, Break Tackle
Warriors: Block, Stand Firm, Tentacles, Guard (My markers and controllers, I want them on there feet, in the right place, and making my opponent making more rolls, and thats tentacles even without +str, just not sure whether for my style I should be going for Tentacles or Guard first)

Pest 1: Sure Hands, Block, Fend, Extra Arms (Dodge)
Pest 2: Block, Claw, MB, Piling On (Jump Up)
Pest 3&4: Wrestle, Tackle, Frenzy (Dodge) (I had considered Strip Ball+Frenzy, but fear of Strip Ball means Sure Hands is rampant).

Rotters: Wrestle, Fend, FA, DP (Guard) (Prolly won't get much further than

[Grumbledook]

4: And most importantly (and not nurgle specific), why does nobody take Frenzy to ST4 blockers here, although in FUMBBL tons of people are willing to spend doubles on BOBs/mummies etc with frenzy.

Frenzy forces you to follow up and these players are often used as corners of cages. If they have to follow up into the tackle zone of another opponent then they aren't going to be that good as a cage corner.

Coupled with the fact there are many other good alternative skills to take as well. I can see how Frenzy can be good, though you asked why its not popular here and those would be the reasons why imo.

[mattgslater]

I take a Frenzy BOB: #2 skill for BOB #4 after Block.

No Guard on the Pests is just me being stretched too thin. I'm just going to have to out-game my opponent. Also, the way I play eventually I'll roll doubles on a Rotter.

Stand Firm is an awesome skill on a killer-type, and it combos well with Block/Tackle. I could see Juggernaut or Frenzy; Jump Up is a third double.

[Purplegoo]

4: And most importantly (and not nurgle specific), why does nobody take Frenzy to ST4 blockers here, although in FUMBBL tons of people are willing to spend doubles on BOBs/mummies etc with frenzy.

Frenzy forces you to follow up and these players are often used as corners of cages. If they have to follow up into the tackle zone of another opponent then they aren't going to be that good as a cage corner.

Coupled with the fact there are many other good alternative skills to take as well. I can see how Frenzy can be good, though you asked why its not popular here and those would be the reasons why imo.

Sidestep is actually the (current) fashionable choice for ST4+ low AG guys on doubles. Frenzy isn't awful, but it does lead to positional trouble on occasion (as well as leading to easier boots), as described. Personal choice is a beautiful thing! Be frightened of people hocking a 'correct' choice around.

They are, in general, infinite game teams too. If you're running a Nurgle team in a TT league, you might not ever see 16 spp with something low AG, so it's a brave man that thinks far enough ahead for SS.

[mattgslater]

Sidestep is actually the (current) fashionable choice for ST4+ low AG guys on doubles.

If I die this week, God forbid, I want this to be my epitaph.

[Purplegoo]

Sorry, what with the who now?

Was just interested on a FUMBBL related point, whatever back story lead to your comment (matt) I'm unaware of. If you're a heavy SS advocate, then fine, but again, there are no right answers.

[Carnis]

Sorry, what with the who now?

Was just interested on a FUMBBL related point, whatever back story lead to your comment (matt) I'm unaware of. If you're a heavy SS advocate, then fine, but again, there are no right answers.

On this forum, he is THE SS advocate. He would pick SS on a snotling, if they could take it twice!