Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[Ikterus]

With respect matt, I have to say that you don't seem to realise the potential of tentacles.

Treating the BoN like a troll does indeed work but it is a waste of a fine player. I recommend you to at least try my approach for at least one game. You'll love it!

Putting Tentacles on a S5 player opens a whole lot of new strategies. I have a S5 warrior. He's getting tentacles next.

[Craigtw]

My Rotters are coming along nicely. I've only played four games, but I've kept it to one Casualty against the Rotters, and was lucky in getting BH/BH on it. If you can shunt the beating to the Warriors, you're golden: so far, the Warriors have taken two Cas and Regenned both, as opposed to just the one on the Rotter and no others. I have two with Block and one with Extra Arms: XA boy has let me start my Pests with Block and Wrestle, and has skilled one of my Warriors, too. I figure that when he dies I just won't replace him and I'll start getting XA on Pests. But I'm glad to have had his accelerant ability early-on: the ability to focus on blocking skills with the Pests has done them a lot of good, knocking down five players, freeing the ball and saving both a knockdown and two turnovers, all in just one game.

I think that BON management is similar to Troll management, with the caveat that he can man-mark agile players, so you may be slightly more likely to deliberately leave him out. But there's no way I'm giving up a block on most players just because of Stupid+Tentacles. Against Skaven, I found myself forgoing actions with the BON once or twice, but otherwise I've mostly just applied the standard principles of stupid-minimization, plus a concern for Tentacles when no counter-block is intended.

Good to hear that things are going well - I am interested to hear that you opted for the Extra Arms, did you choose this because you are in a Strip Ball light league?

As for the beast and the 3D blocks, it's all a matter of coaching style I think, but I think you may find that after a couple of times of failing the block or going stupid and having it cost you a TD (or the game) then you may be more wary of them in the future!

[Craigtw]

With respect matt, I have to say that you don't seem to realise the potential of tentacles.

Treating the BoN like a troll does indeed work but it is a waste of a fine player. I recommend you to at least try my approach for at least one game. You'll love it!

I think you misunderstand Matt - he said it was similar but also acknowledges that you would be more likely to avoid using him than you would the troll.

[mattgslater]

Treating the BoN like a troll ...

I think that BON management is similar to Troll management...

I guess my term 'management' is a bit unclear. I mean, in terms of order of operations, when to act, etc. I suppose the major exceptions come when he has to mark two players or when he's moving from space against a team that might otherwise be tempted to dodge. But yeah, for the most part, "when does the BON go?" is a similar question to "when does the Troll go?"

But in terms of positioning and usage, I agree that the BON is really more of a strong safety/centerfield type, while the Troll is a straight-up lineman.

[Craigtw]

What do you guys think of Wrestle/Claw rotters? IMO they could be perfect for annoying the hell out of both Dwarves & Elves! Wrestle mostly kills guard/standfirm & claw kills AV8-AV9. Wrestle also significantly weakens BLODGE, combined with Claw it's like getting freehits every now and then.

Wrestle and Claw is a waste of SPP in my opinion. If you take Claw you want to make it as effective as possible. Wrestle makes Claw useless everytime you roll both down (unless you choose to ignore Wrestle when blocking a non-Block player and that makes picking Wrestle a bit silly)
Wrestle and Tackle is better.
Also remember that Rotters seldom get their second skill...

I would agree with everything that Ikterus has said wholeheartedly.... before this.

I think that Wrestle and Claw is a great combination, exactly for the reasons that Carnis mentioned. It gives a lot of options against different teams, and in there are even instances when you may want to use the "chop-block" result and Claw together by ignoring the fact that you have wrestle, take both players down and get a good shot against their player with the Claw on the injury roll. Sure, it is a turnover, and you are taking an armour roll too, but there are instances when this would be good.

I took this combo at a tourney once, to the mocking of my opponents, but they did see after that it was a good combo with effective options.

[Smeborg]

This is going a bit off the tangent here, but I think I'd post it here anyway. My Beast got a skill from the very first game (cas+MVP) and I took Break Tackle on it.

The two next games I didn't use Break Tackle a single time and I was regretting taking it over Guard or Stand Firm. But then I actively started looking for opportunities and so far it's proved great. I just have to overlook the fact that the Beast has Loner and brave the 1's or 2's on dodges and GFI's. The fact that he's ST5 and has Tentacles and Disturbing Presence means that the rewards from getting him next to the ball carrier usually outweigh the risks of failing. Plus the fact that I show that I'm willing to take risks with him means that my opponents have one more thing to try and avoid on their offence. And limiting the opponent's options is a key to good defence.

Ullis - you are discovering the joys of an active Beast. This is the strategy I have favoured in the past. The Beast becomes a mobile threat that your opponent has to consider during his turn. He is also a good short range cage-breaker. Risks can be minimised by using the Beast on the last (or penultimate) action of the turn. You may find you only use B-Tackle a few times in a match, but these uses can be decisive.

This season I am trying the other route (passive Beast with S-Firm etc.). I'll let you know how I get on.

Of course, at higher skill levels (4 or 5 skills) the two strategies merge. Then you have the best of both worlds.

[Smeborg]

With respect matt, I have to say that you don't seem to realise the potential of tentacles.

Treating the BoN like a troll does indeed work but it is a waste of a fine player. I recommend you to at least try my approach for at least one game. You'll love it!

Putting Tentacles on a S5 player opens a whole lot of new strategies. I have a S5 warrior. He's getting tentacles next.

I too have recently acquired a ST5 Warrior, and will take Tentacles on him if and when he gets his second skill.

Although the Beast is, in certain respects, a glorified Troll, the Tentacles does make his game uses rather different, when he is active. And he has to be one of the more entertaining players in the game, whether you are playing for or against him.

[Smeborg]

Ikterus and Craigtw are debating Wrestle+Tackle vs. Wrestle+Claw on Pestigors.

Just to add to the fun, my preferred combination is Wrestle+Fend.

At least we are all agreed on Wrestle!

[Craigtw]

Ikterus and Craigtw are debating Wrestle+Tackle vs. Wrestle+Claw on Pestigors.

Actually, it was on rotters, not pestigors.

[Ikterus]

What do you guys think of Wrestle/Claw rotters? IMO they could be perfect for annoying the hell out of both Dwarves & Elves! Wrestle mostly kills guard/standfirm & claw kills AV8-AV9. Wrestle also significantly weakens BLODGE, combined with Claw it's like getting freehits every now and then.

Wrestle and Claw is a waste of SPP in my opinion. If you take Claw you want to make it as effective as possible. Wrestle makes Claw useless everytime you roll both down (unless you choose to ignore Wrestle when blocking a non-Block player and that makes picking Wrestle a bit silly)
Wrestle and Tackle is better.
Also remember that Rotters seldom get their second skill...

I would agree with everything that Ikterus has said wholeheartedly.... before this.

I think that Wrestle and Claw is a great combination, exactly for the reasons that Carnis mentioned. It gives a lot of options against different teams, and in there are even instances when you may want to use the "chop-block" result and Claw together by ignoring the fact that you have wrestle, take both players down and get a good shot against their player with the Claw on the injury roll. Sure, it is a turnover, and you are taking an armour roll too, but there are instances when this would be good.

I took this combo at a tourney once, to the mocking of my opponents, but they did see after that it was a good combo with effective options.

Hmmm. Always interesting to hear when people think you're wrong.

This I have to think about... I see your point but how is this better than Wrackle? It gets more players on the ground, more often. Sure it won't cause as many Cas, but fewer turnovers. You want to hurt AV9 players? Then you need Block not Wrestle (most AV9 players will have Block unless you're facing a noob team).

Where do I miss the point?

[Carnis]

You want to hurt AV9 players? Then you need Block not Wrestle (most AV9 players will have Block unless you're facing a noob team).

Where do I miss the point?

There!

You don't want BLOCK vs AV9 players. They already have block. If you roll doublebothdowns & have block, you're stuck in a TZ with an AV9 block player. Wrestle sets you free & puts his low MA/high AV player on the ground. Your risk of getting shafted is 1/36 with wrestle & 1/9 with block (against block). Obviously it's the other way around against wrestle/non-block.

[mattgslater]

I think Carnis and Craig's point is that the Wrestle/Claw Rotter is more versatile. At full development, you only field two Rotters on any given drive. And at any given time, you're only going to have one skilled Rotter off the pitch. You've got an offensive guy and a kicker, so there's nowhere else to stash a specialist (unless you have just awesome luck). Thus, combo quality on Rotter skills is relatively low. Wrestle meets the minimum prerequisite for Claw (it makes blocks safe), and Claw only cares about Block over Wrestle 7/36 of the time vs. non-Block players, and not at all vs. Block or Wrestle players. So if you want a Claw Rotter and you want a Wrestle Rotter, you're screwing yourself less by combining them on the same guy than you would on a team like Chaos or Pact.

Edited for accuracy.

[mattgslater]

You don't want BLOCK vs [players who] already have block.

An understanding of this fact is a prerequisite for not sucking at Blood Bowl. But I'm continually amazed at how many otherwise smart people refuse to learn this, and consign themselves to scratching their heads after every 4-1 loss, insisting that they did everything right because they practiced good risk management. But the truth is that everything is harder if you can't work out the matchups, and there is no good risk management when the other guy is playing 3/4 odds to your 5/9.

[Craigtw]

Where do I miss the point?

I think you are also missing the idea that Carnis put out that the Wrestle/Claw combo can be a threat to bashy or agility teams, whereas the Wrestle/Tackle will be more limited in it's threat factor.

As a dwarf longbeard up against Wrestle/Tackle I will not be too concerned. I would throw a one die block against you without too much worry. 1/3 chance of me going down, with only a 1/6 chance of me taking an armour roll - I will leave the math to someone else to figure out the likelihood of actually getting hurt. But if you throw a claw into the mix, the 1/6 chance of the armour roll suddenly is a bit more daunting, and I would be likely to think twice.

The same goes for any AV7 team which does not care about the claw. But the chance of taking an armour rolls is always a concern. Particularly if you do not have Block, as the Wrestle player may choose not to use the skill and take you down to force a turnover and make an armour roll against you (while taking one against himself), but with a claw his will always be better than yours....

[mattgslater]

As a dwarf longbeard up against Wrestle/Tackle I will not be too concerned. I would throw a one die block against you without too much worry. 1/3 chance of me going down, with only a 1/6 chance of me taking an armour roll - I will leave the math to someone else to figure out the likelihood of actually getting hurt. But if you throw a claw into the mix, the 1/6 chance of the armour roll suddenly is a bit more daunting, and I would be likely to think twice.

This never occurred to me. I guess it's because I'm terrified of 1d blocks; for some reason, after 13 years, I'm still over a 50% lifetime skull rate on 1d blocks. I would never think of 1d'ing a Wrestle player unless I was in a desperate straits or needed a push or both-down to get something important, like a recovery or a score. Maybe this is why I'm not as good with Dwarfs as I am with other teams....