Do I need a Skaven Renegade with my Chaos Pact?

[GalakStarscraper]

and it would have only taken me 1 LRB to make the game as good as LRB6 !

Thanks Toby.

I've read enough now.

[TuernRedvenom]

Yes people disagree with me - not everyone is as good as I am, and some people like different things just based on personal preference.
I am very happy there is no more BBRC, no more pointless rules tweaks, no more warhammer teams, and it would have only taken me 1 LRB to make the game as good as LRB6 !

Surely you are the man and us chumps should all bow down to your infallible wisdom!

Amusing really.

[Ullis]

Don't feed the troll.

[Darkson]

not everyone is as good as I am,

True, but I'm a damn sight better than you, and I say you're wrong, so that's ok.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

not everyone is as good as I am,

True, but I'm a damn sight better than you, and I say you're wrong, so that's ok.

LOL maybe in some kind of parallel universe !

[voyagers_uk]

oh behave!

we love diversity here on TFF.org, but you're just a little too diverse mate. Not that you are not welcome, just rein it in a little...

[mattgslater]

Diversity is one thing. Disagreements rock. But slangin' the smack around over here in theoryville is just injudicious: save it for the tournament threads, league blogs and general chat.

Yeah, the gap from 3rd to LRB6 looks small in hindsight, and I'm sure any competent amateur designer can think of a dozen ways to improve LRB6. (Ooh! Me! Me!) But that's a lot of shoulders you're sitting on, a lot of years of development that went into what you know. It's like saying that you could write like Hemingway, because he used mostly little words and you've read enough Hemingway to pick up on his style.

Well, there's also the inefficiency of doing things by committee, all the hands and perspectives that went into the game's evolution, the playtesting revelations... that stuff all takes a long time.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

MY whole point is that the Skaven lineman is redundant and therefore not great design of the team. The argument as to whether a gutter runner would be overpowered is pointless due to nothing really mattering power level wise in BB. Bloodbowl 3rd ed has never been a bad game, and all the endless tweaks have been pretty much pointless because if someone thinks Humans aren't as good as Orcs it really doesn't matter. So what if Dwarfs win a tiny percentage of games more than some other teams. There is a lot of diversity in BB teams and I feel a generic Skaven lineman who is entirely inferior to a marauder was an opportunity missed, but if Jervis was adamant then so be it.

[mattgslater]

Redundant? Totally disagree. He's got a toolbox tweak, and a pretty useful one at that. He's not exactly blessed with earth-shattering awesomeness, but on a team with three big guys I can't say that like it's a bad thing.

I totally disagree also with your claim that power level doesn't matter just because balance along twenty-four teams is impossible (FWIW, it is impossible). The truth is that balance at the top is enormously important, and balance below the top is of somewhat lesser concern.

[cyagen]

Jimmy/Toby (that must be your fifth ID so far)

You obviously never played CP correctly.

The Skaven is a VERY important part of the team on defense, acting as the weak side safety. 7 MV allows him to protect one half of the field and also help him be a factor if your opponent goes the other way.

And stop trying to quote Jervis on this and that. Jervis is not God and he gave us CRAP so why do we have to care what he wanted to do. I care about what we got now which is a very fun/frustrating team to play.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Who the hell is Toby???
I think now that GW have basically shat on the community, balance and what teams are out there don't matter at all now. House rules are what it's all about.
It was Galak that mentioned Jervis, saying that the lineman was required.
I don't see why you think balance at the top is extremely important. Look at warhammer, Daemons are the best army by a mile, but people still use other armies cos they enjoy to play.
If there was a team of 6 4 4 8 men for 60k each it really wouldn't matter. Bloodbowl will always be a fun game to play, that's the only important thing. True every GW tournament would be dominated by them, but when you made a league you could ban or houserule them and at non gw tournaments you could ban them, or houserule them.

As regards the skaven, would you take a hobgoblin on an orc team? NO. It is a bad player, if you cannot see this you are a bad player.

[voyagers_uk]

Who the hell is Toby???
I think now that GW have basically shat on the community, balance and what teams are out there don't matter at all now. House rules are what it's all about.
It was Galak that mentioned Jervis, saying that the lineman was required.
I don't see why you think balance at the top is extremely important. Look at warhammer, Daemons are the best army by a mile, but people still use other armies cos they enjoy to play.
If there was a team of 6 4 4 8 men for 60k each it really wouldn't matter. Bloodbowl will always be a fun game to play, that's the only important thing. True every GW tournament would be dominated by them, but when you made a league you could ban or houserule them and at non gw tournaments you could ban them, or houserule them.

As regards the skaven, would you take a hobgoblin on an orc team? NO. It is a bad player, if you cannot see this you are a bad player.

Jimmy is not TOBY, there are just similarities....

I am pleased you are confident enough to implement House rules to overcome the shortcomings in your beliefs on balance and your skill level.

6 4 4 8 for 60k would be an unbeatable team in a perpetual league system, Vampires without negatives.... hmm let me think for a sec...yes please...ond

Why would GW or any games designer put a team like that in place knowing that only power gaming bearded @ss hats would play it to drain the life and fun out of the tournament scene.... that makes no sense even with the limited care and attention GW give Bloodbowl.

The ruleset exists in it's current form due to the process of involving fans and listening somewhat to their opinions. hence no super teams and a modicum of balance at the various tiers.

I would totally replace a goblin with a hobgoblin on an orc team... the extra strength would make a difference in the short to medium term. if you cannot see that then your opinions are pretty much invalid and thus should be taken with a pinch of salt.

[TuernRedvenom]

As regards the skaven, would you take a hobgoblin on an orc team? NO. It is a bad player, if you cannot see this you are a bad player.

I would, it's an excellent ball carrier for caging up with orcs. He's cheaper and faster then a thrower. Stronger then a goblin and has regular access to Block and Sure Hands (which is all he needs). If you cannot see this you are a terrible player!

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Too many idiots here, totally missed the point on the 6 4 4 8 team, and think 6 3 3 7 is better than 5 3 3 9. I was trying to help the OP by telling him that the linerat is no good but the idiots want to be heard. No more posting on tactics anymore for me, byebye fools.

[GalakStarscraper]

Too many idiots here, totally missed the point on the 6 4 4 8 team, and think 6 3 3 7 is better than 5 3 3 9. I was trying to help the OP by telling him that the linerat is no good but the idiots want to be heard. No more posting on tactics anymore for me, byebye fools.

Well that's a relief than ... normally the route you were going has normally lead to personal insults and then warnings and bannings. So if you are going to leave the idiots alone without the advantage of your knowledge ... I have to say thank you for the lack of paperwork I won't be having.

Galak