Really Important Rules Question

[BlanchPrez]

Action can be anything a player does; But its not... so yes we need a list of actions an chapters that cover all topics in one place and so on and so on

I agree with this, a complete list of everything that's an action would be nice, and help claify some things that confuse people (such as the whole hand-off/pass question).

Chris

[DoubleSkulls]

A throw results in a turnover unless the ball is caught by any teammate. A successful throw is called a pass. The nominated receiving player must perform a succesful catch in order to complete the pass. A completed pass earns the throwing player 1 starplayer point.

Note that failing a catch does not result in a turnover unless the ball had been thrown by a teammate.

Well what wrong with it is that its incorrect.

A completion is awarded for an accurate pass that is caught by any teammate.

A pass results in a turnover if it is a fumble or results in a loss of possession.

[Toby]

My wording is not incorrect.

I just tried to explain it in a better war.

"Pass Action" is a really bad way to put it. If you read again you will see I suggest the introduction of a throw action, that can either be a thow of the ball or a throw of a teammate.

an accutate throw thus would be a pass. a catched accurate throw a complete pass.

[BlanchPrez]

My wording is not incorrect.

The way you have it worded below, it is.

A throw results in a turnover unless the ball is caught by any teammate. A successful throw is called a pass. The nominated receiving player must perform a succesful catch in order to complete the pass. A completed pass earns the throwing player 1 starplayer point.

You have said that the nominated receiver must catch the ball in order for it to be a complete pass. In the current LRB, this is not the case. The ball can be caught by anyone on your team to be a sucessful completed pass and get your thrower SPP's.

Chris

[Toby]

Chris, I remember having had an argument on this some time ago.

I was in your opinion.

Folks on TBB insisted that it had to be a "perfect" play.

Accrate Pass and catch by Targeted Receiver.

If it was up to ME, I would award 1 SPP as long as the ball is CAUGHT, even if the throw was inaccurate and the catcher had to use diving catch...

[Biff Smackwell]

Okay now I'm all confused. Let me see if I got this right:

1. A Thrower chucks the ball.
.....a) The Pass roll is a success: No Turnover Yet
.....b) The Pass roll is incomplete: No Turnover Yet
2. Someone catches the ball.
.....a) Successful Pass - Nominated Player catches the ball: No Turnover, Continue Turn
.....b) Successful Pass - Unsuccessful Catch Nominated Player fails to catch the ball. No Turnover Yet
..........i) If any Teammate on the throwing team catches this ball, No Turnover - Continue Turn
..........ii) If ball bounces around and is not caught by the throwing team, Turnover
..........iii) If ball bounces and is caught by the opposing team, Turnover
.....c) Unsuccessful Pass - Ball bounces once to a square with a player of the moving team, is not caught, bounces again to another square with a player of the moving team, and is caught. No Turnover
.....d) Unsuccessful Pass - Ball bounces around and is not caught by the throwing team, Turnover

Also, trying to pick up a stationary ball and failing causes a Turnover.



Is this how it goes? Please someone tell me this is how it goes cause this is confusing the ass out of me!

[Darkson]

Umm....yes (?)

[BlanchPrez]

That looks right to me.

Chris

[Toby]

Yust imagine the ball beeing still in the Air.

As soon as it touches the ground, its a Turnover.

As long as it is bowling around players trying to grab it, its "still hot".

[GalakStarscraper]

As soon as it touches the ground, its a Turnover.

Arggh ... no ... it is not a turnover if it touches the ground. Its only a turnover if it comes to rest on the ground.

Okay ... let's try to put this very simply again ... its been done before but let's hit it again.

Code: Select all

When you attempt to PASS the BALL, you have 4 states that can occur:

1)  Interception:  This is an immediate turnover.

2)  Fumble:  This is a turnover, no matter what happens with the ball in the process of it coming to rest.

3)  Inaccurate:  You wait until the ball COMES TO REST.  If ANY of your players have it when it stops moving, you my continue your turn.  Otherwise, its AT THAT POINT a turnover (ie when the ball comes to rest).

4)  Accurate:  You wait until the ball COMES TO REST.  If ANY of your players have it when it stops moving, the thrower gets one SPP for a completion (as long as he didn't catch his own pass) and you my continue your turn.  Otherwise, its AT THAT POINT a turnover (ie when the ball comes to rest).

Its really just as simply as what is above. Trying to say anything else is an incorrect interpretation of the rules and making it more difficult than it should be and for that matter really is.

Biff's statements above are correct, but overcomplicated and are missing some conditions by trying to be so precise. But Biff you got the general gist of it.

Galak

[GalakStarscraper]

Folks on TBB insisted that it had to be a "perfect" play.

Accrate Pass and catch by Targeted Receiver.

If folks said this they were wrong ... its Accurate Pass and catch by any other team player other than the Thrower to get a completion.

Galak

[Toby]

I always imagined the ball not bouncing on the ground but between players.

maybe becaus I lack american football tv coverage

[DesTroy]

IMO a table with ALL possible turnovers would help. You might want to have the pagenumber behind the specific turnover so that people can look it up as well. Then your table would be like a quick reference and can be held short while peole on the other hand don't have to search long for finging the exact references.

This is something Blood Bowl has needed for a long time. Cross-referencing of rules to the pages they're on would make so many coaches' lives (and commissioners' lives too, as I can attest!) so much easier. Not just page references on the Turnover chart, but throughout the LRB in cases where rules overlap (and there's a lot of that in the LRB).

Further, examples would help a lot. Why not make an example of an accurate pass caught by a player of your own team, then modify this example (can be done as a text as well) to what happens if the player doesn't catch it but a player of his own team next to him catches it, then what happens if the throw is inaccurate, the crowd throws it in etc...my experience is that beginners have much difficulties with the rules scattered all over the different pages. On the other hand, they usually like to have a look at examples after reading the respective rules for the first time and often say this helps to get an idea of all the termini etc..

Yeah, whatever happened to the Slow Motion Replay boxes (i.e. example boxes) that were in earlier editions? More of these would be VERY helpful! I can understand the idea of wanting to keep the page count down, but when there are this many messages asking about one rule or the other, it's time IMHO to expand the LRB a little bit, to allow for cross-referencing and Slow Motion Replays.

[Darkson]

Chris, I remember having had an argument on this some time ago.
I was in your opinion.
Folks on TBB insisted that it had to be a "perfect" play.
Accrate Pass and catch by Targeted Receiver.

Well, if you mean the thread I think you mean ( viewtopic.php?t=5505 ) then the majority of coaches agreed that as long as it was an accurate pass, and was caught by another player on your team, it was a 1SPP pass. (And strangely, you didn't post once on it )

If it was up to ME, I would award 1 SPP as long as the ball is CAUGHT, even if the throw was inaccurate and the catcher had to use diving catch...

But it's not up to you, and it's a thread about a rules clarification, so please don't muddy the waters with your changes.

[Biff Smackwell]

Bad chart!