New Handicap Table ... right idea?

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Simplified Scaled Handicap Table

Good improvement from the current table
87
38%
Better but needs a lot more work
71
31%
Not the right idea
69
30%
 
Total votes: 227

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GalakStarscraper
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New Handicap Table ... right idea?

Post by GalakStarscraper »

Okay a better handicap table has been requested on several fronts.

Working on the NAF site with Ian's help and others. We started with Milo's CHUBB table concept with scaled handicap results. Removed the effects that gave effects past the current game for either team and removed the dead weight effects as well.

Does this handicap table seem a step forward from the current one?

===============================================

Calculate the difference between the two team ratings. That difference is the underdog’s Handicap Points. They may spend the points on any of the following tables at the start of the match. Each table is a D8 roll and any roll of a previous rolled handicap should be rerolled on the same table. Once all handicap results are rolled, the coach can then determine what order he applies them in. A coach can choose not to apply a handicap result if he desires.

Good Karma - 10 point table:
1 - EXTRA TRAINING: Your team has worked long and hard all week for this opponent. You may take an extra Team Re-roll to use for this match only.
2 - INTENSIVE TRAINING: One player is really psyched for this week’s match, and has been working very hard preparing for it. Pick a player on your team. He may take one extra skill to use for this match only, just as if he had rolled a New Skill result on the Star Player Table.
3 - SCUTT’S SCROLL OF WEATHER MAGIC: You have tricked a gullible Wizard into parting with a useful scroll. Once per game, at the start of either player’s turn, you can select a weather result – the weather will immediately change to that result and remain there until a Weather Change kickoff roll is made.
4 - PALMED COIN: You automatically win the coin toss to start the game (do not flip the coin).
5 - TEAM ANTHEM: Add +3 to your Fan Factor for this game only.
6 - EGGHEAD CONVENTION: A local inventor’s guild is sponsoring a convention in the city today. Several of the attendees are big fans of your team, and are willing to assist your team in today’s match in exchange for getting to watch the game from the sidelines. With their aid, your team will automatically win any Brilliant Coaching results on the Kickoff Table.
7 - THAT BABE’S GOT TALENT!: Your team visits the local tavern the night before the game. One of the exotic dancers displays her, umm, ‘talents,’ and your players leave her a generous tip. She and a few friends decide to hang out with your team for the day. You automatically win any Cheering Fans results on the Kickoff Table.
8 - KID'S GLOVES: One player (your choice) on the opposing team has the NAF questioning his tactics on how he has been racking up those injuries. He decides to go easy this game to reduce the scrunity on him. All armour breaks against your team by this player from fouling or blocking will be treated as Stunned results without this player actually rolling to see an injury result.

Random Events and Dirty Tricks - 20 point table
1 - MAGIC SPONGE: Your team has received a free magic sponge from the College of Wizards when they heard about this upcoming match. You may use the Magic Sponge once this game just like an Apothecary (even if your team normally doesn't have access to an apothecary).
2 - BAD HABITS: The opposing team loses D3 re-rolls for this match only.
3 - SMELLING SALTS: You make all rolls to move a player from the Knocked Out box to the Reserves box on a roll of 2 or better for this match.
4 - DUH, WHERE AM I?: One player (your choice) on the opposing team has been out all night on a bender, and isn’t really ready for the game. The Really Stupid rule that applies to Trolls applies to the player for this match only.
5 - IRON MAN: One player on your team (your choice) is determined to play hard for the whole game, no matter what the cost – in fact, he refuses to get injured! If an opposing player beats his Armour roll, he is only Stunned. Injury dice should not to rolled.
6 - BUZZING! One of your players (your choice) has gone heavy on the coffee in anticipation of today’s game. For this match only he gains the Jump Up trait and the Frenzy trait.
7 - WINDS OF CHANGE: Once during the game, you may change the Kick-Off result to a result either one above or one below it on the kick-off table.
8 - EGO TRIP: One player (your choice) on the opposing team has developed a real swelled head from his success. For this match, this player must move first every turn or not move at all.

Desperate Measures - 40 point table
1 - ASSASSIN: Pick a player on the opposing team. An assassin has poisoned his drink and he's unable to play during the game.
2 - I AM THE GREATEST! The two players with the most SPPs available to play this match on the opposing team refuse to be on the pitch at the same time for this match only. Only one may be set up on the field at the start of each drive.
3 - MORLEY’S REVENGE: The opposing team’s drinks have been spiked with a powerful laxative. D3 randomly selected opposing players not suffering a handicap effect already have drunk the spiked drink, and must roll a D6 before every kick-off. On a roll of 1-3 they are otherwise engaged and may not take part in this drive. On a roll of 4-6 they may be set up normally.
4 - DOOM and GLOOM: Due to some cunningly planted rumors and smear campaigns, the opposing team comes into the game with some serious morale issues. Roll a D6 for each re-roll the opposing team has; for each result other than 1, the opposing team loses a re-roll for the match.
5 - HEY, YOU!: You spot a talented (if crazy) fan in the stands, and he agrees to play for your team. The fan has MA6, ST4, AG3, AV7, and the Frenzy trait. The player leaves your team when the match ends. Note that you may add a 17th player to your team with this result.
6 - IN THE BAG!: The opposing team is feeling cocky about their chances of winning this match. They can only field the 11 worst available players (ie in Reserves) on their team, based on SPPs (in case of ties, the team with the lower TR picks which is unable to play). This restriction stops for the rest of the match as soon as your team takes the lead.
7 - RUNNING LATE: Agents in your employ manage to delay D3 randomly selected players not suffering a handicap effect already on the opposing team for this inconvenient match. The players must miss the first half.
8 - DOCTOR IN THE HOUSE?: A huge apothecary convention is in town (which even attracts several Necromancers) and it turns out that a lot of them are fans of your team. For this match, your team treats all Deaths as Serious Injury-Miss Next Game; all Serious Injuries are treated as Badly Hurt, and all Badly Hurts are treated as Knocked Out. This effect is applied before you have to use your Apothecary. The opposing team will still earn SPPs for Badly Hurt injuries that the apothecaries turn into KOs.
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Post by Jugular »

Just as some clarification to the table. Repeat rolls on tables (assuming these are allowed) of certain effects would be ignored, obtained or rerolled?

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Post by Jugular »

Also "IN THE BAG!" seems like deadweight to me...Many high TR elven teams have less than 11 players therefore it will be inneffectual (a bit of a waste of 50 points of Handicap). Many Bashy teams have their 'strongest' players with the least SPP (Lizzies, Orcs, Khemri?) and therefore will still be tough opponents. Sadly I don't have an alternative idea......

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Post by DoubleSkulls »

I'd like to see more variety in the results (i.e. more than 6 results on each table) but its definitely a big move in the right direction.

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Post by Darkson »

Agree with Ian, so do I vote for 1 or 2?

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

Jugular wrote:Just as some clarification to the table. Repeat rolls on tables (assuming these are allowed) of certain effects would be ignored, obtained or rerolled?
rerolled

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

Jugular wrote:Also "IN THE BAG!" seems like deadweight to me...Many high TR elven teams have less than 11 players therefore it will be inneffectual (a bit of a waste of 50 points of Handicap). Many Bashy teams have their 'strongest' players with the least SPP (Lizzies, Orcs, Khemri?) and therefore will still be tough opponents. Sadly I don't have an alternative idea......
In the Bag has been on the original table for a while and I've seen this make a big difference in some games for the underdog pounding on the opponent and getting an early lead or not getting hurt if they lose.

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

ianwilliams wrote:I'd like to see more variety in the results (i.e. more than 6 results on each table) but its definitely a big move in the right direction.
The problem with more results Ian is creating more results that aren't deadweight ... look at the CHUBB table ... a lot of deadweight.

A D8 comes with the game so you could add 2 to each table if you wanted and I am open to this if balanced single game effects are suggested.

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Post by Jugular »

How about for "In The Bag" to solve my suggested problem of high TR teams with few players by adding "a team with less than 11 players play more laxly and cannot use their rerolls until you begin to beat them" Otherwise you have still lost 50 points of handicap playing against a team with e.g. 9 Wood Elves. I like this simple format and can't see a reason for adding results, aside from the dirth of non-deadweight ideas.

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

Jugular wrote:How about for "In The Bag" to solve my suggested problem of high TR teams with few players by adding "a team with less than 11 players play more laxly and cannot use their rerolls until you begin to beat them" Otherwise you have still lost 40 points of handicap playing against a team with e.g. 9 Wood Elves. I like this simple format and can't see a reason for adding results, aside from the dirth of non-deadweight ideas.
If I was playing 40 points down to a 9 player Wood Elf team I'd probably take two 20 handicaps instead of the single 40. Might give me better odds.

Its one of advantages of the scaled table. If you are 40 points down, you can take:

one 40 point handicap
two 20 point handicaps
one 20 point handicap and two 10 point handicaps
four 10 point handicaps

IE look at your opponent and figure out what you need based on the opponent.

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Post by gken1 »

where's virus? i am really not impressed with these tables...i'm sure something can be worked but they are pretty blah. How about bringing back the old cards somehow? if they didn't print them on thick cardboard stock i don't think it'd be as expensive. how about playing card stock?

I really like the old cards where u could pull some really nasty tricks.

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Post by DoubleSkulls »

gken1 wrote:where's virus?
The table was put together with the intent of it being combined with enhanced niggles - so virus is less useful.

Also I don't particularly like virus as its one of those results that can be completely useless or devasting.

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Post by Dangerous Dave »

The Handicap Table really needs improving. However, the big problem with the current one is that some rolls will be very beneficial - others will not. Splitting rolls into "value" should help this.

That said, only having d6 rolls on each one does not give much variety. In addition, even within the tables, there is significant variation. Finally, Does anyone really believe that a 101 TR difference will be equated by 4 25 points or 2 Desperate Measure? (remember the current table allows a pick and 4 other rolls for a 101 TR difference) So what do we need to do? Simple:

Add more results

Make the results closer in terms of impact

Amend the points values of the tables


In detail:

Good Karma

Why is there an insistence on Palmed Coin - I know its one of the BBRC members suggestions - let's get rid NOW!

Team Anthem - except in a close match up, d6 FF will generally make little difference.

Egghead and Babes will almost certainly have no impact on the game - the best is perhaps 1 reroll (for a half or less) which may not be that useful (how many times do you win a reroll at a kick off when it is no use to you?) - this result is much worse than Extra Training

RE and DT

These are all decent rolls.

Desperate Measures

1 An average roll of 35k is unlikely to make much difference in an important game - remember that a good Star Player would cost circa 90k to freeboot - the player with the most SPPs is likely to be at least half as good.

5 Although this is a decent add to your team, av 7 and no block means this player is unlikely to last long particularly when you are playing against a high powered team.


I feel that the points values should be changed to 10, 20 and 40. This together with some improvements to the above should give the underdog a fighting chance.

There have been a number of Handicap Table changes detailed over the last couple of years. Let's dig these out and work out which ones could fit. Some suggestions for improving the rolls above:-


Good Karma

Team Anthem add 2d6 FF

Random player gets trait of choice (must be one that they can get on a double)

Your lucks in - roll on the RE and DT table instead


Desperate Measures

Instead of the ST 4 Frenzier - how about a rookie Big Guy - must be available to the team - however, teams without a Big Guy (eg Zon) can get an Ogre (Ogress?)

Bribe Ref - you can amend one of the rolled KO results to one of your choice

Virus - although this result can be super tough or no use at all, some variation on this may be useful - in addition, just having this result on the table should ensure that players concentrate on retiring those nigglers.



That's enough for now



Dave

PS - let's also amend the KO table while we are at it - IMO both need to be done at the same time especially if results on the HC table impact the KO table.

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Post by DoubleSkulls »

Dangerous Dave wrote:Why is there an insistence on Palmed Coin - I know its one of the BBRC members suggestions - let's get rid NOW!
I can see the advantage of Palmed Coin, but I agree it still seems weak. Maybe you can choose either the weather or the kick off?
Dangerous Dave wrote:Team Anthem - except in a close match up, d6 FF will generally make little difference.
Its a 10pt difference. Those extra fans can ensure you win Pitch Invasions or Get the Refs.
Dangerous Dave wrote:Egghead and Babes will almost certainly have no impact on the game
Once again - its a 10 point difference. I played a game the other week with 5 brilliant coaching results. Remember its not just an extra reroll for you - its one less for your opponent.
Dangerous Dave wrote: Desperate Measures

1 An average roll of 35k is unlikely to make much difference in an important game - remember that a good Star Player would cost circa 90k to freeboot - the player with the most SPPs is likely to be at least half as good.
If you've got the money in the bank :D Most of the time this effective because your opponent doesn't have the money in the treasury. 35k seems reasonable to me.
Dangerous Dave wrote:5 Although this is a decent add to your team, av 7 and no block means this player is unlikely to last long particularly when you are playing against a high powered team.
I quite like this result. However I'd rather see a version that absorbs punishment rather than dish it out.
Dangerous Dave wrote:I feel that the points values should be changed to 10, 20 and 40. This together with some improvements to the above should give the underdog a fighting chance.
I agree with this. I think a 10-20-40 split is more natural.

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Post by GalakStarscraper »

Dangerous Dave wrote:Why is there an insistence on Palmed Coin - I know its one of the BBRC members suggestions - let's get rid NOW!
Actually Dave, I used to agree with you. But after having 2 games where I received that handicap (and it is a 10 point handicap result), I had a great first kickoff where I posted 2 CAS each on those opening hits. Being able to go first is a big deal in this game.
Team Anthem - except in a close match up, d6 FF will generally make little difference.
FF can be a big difference when it comes to some of the KO events. .... however, I think I'd prefer +3 solid vs D6, I'm open to thoughts on this one ... better as die roll or static number???
Egghead and Babes will almost certainly have no impact on the game - this result is much worse than Extra Training
From coaching Flings, I'll disagree with this one entirely. Its not only 1 extra for you, its one less for them. My Fling teams all run 6 Cheerleaders and 6 AC just for the reroll DENIAL (not because I need the extra reroll).
Desperate Measures

1 An average roll of 35k is unlikely to make much difference in an important game -
Acutally in the MBBL and MBBL2, I'd say easily 75% of the time Appearance Fee takes their best star out of the game. So I'll have to disagree with your statement.
5 Although this is a decent add to your team, av 7 and no block means this player is unlikely to last long particularly when you are playing against a high powered team.
Again I'll disagree ST 4 and Frenzy even with AV 7 is a nice add no matter what team you play. The MBBL has used this handicap for some time and it is one of the favorites.
I feel that the points values should be changed to 10, 20 and 40. This together with some improvements to the above should give the underdog a fighting chance.
This I agree with after comparing it back to the original handicap table some more.

Okay so we'd like to add 2 results to each of the tables ... I'm fine with that really. However Virus is NOT coming back. There is strong agreement to make Niggle a little worse as an injury result and as such that means less teams might carry Niggled players. I've seen this results come up several times and have ZERO impact. So I don't agree that its a good handicap at all.

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