spicing up the old Chaos team

campaigner · Post by **campaigner** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 11:30 am

hi all,

has anyone of you ever experienced with adding new player positions to the normal Chaos team. I'm league commish here and was asked to find something along those lines.

I was thinking about something like:

0-2 Beastman Blocker 6338 Horns, Block
0-2 Beastman Runner 7337 Horns, Sure Hands (maybe access to Passing skills)

any suggestions?

campaigner

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 11:46 am

When I started playing chaos I always fancied the idea of a beastmen runner as the chaos roster is quite plain with only 2 positions.

My first 4-5 games were really boring and the biggest thrill was "will I pick up the ball"?. I only got 2 skills in 4 Games, but then it raised to 5 skills in 5 games and now the team begins to get really nasty.

Once you have four CWs with Block, 1-2 Beastmen with sure hands and some players with stat increases or mutations the team becomes quite dangerous. After 5 games I have 5 players with ST4 and all of them have AG3 and MA5/6 plus you get one ST4 Blitz for free per turn.

I'm not sure if chaos needs two runners? At the beginning definitely yes, but what if you have a TR150-200 chaos team? wouldn't it be too unbalancing? In the current state chaos teams need to develop runners by themselves (giving them sure hands etc.) If you give the team two runners from scratch, the coach can concentrate on developing a bashy-killer team with no need to take ball handling/speed skills. I'm afraid that at the end such a team will rip apart any opponent...

Just my 2 (Euro)cents

Starblayde · Post by **Starblayde** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:20 pm

Total agreement with narkotic. Chaos teams will never start out balanced. They're a real long-term team and you can make real powerhouses out of them.

I think the team is just fine as it is. Execpt maybe the re-roll cost

campaigner · Post by **campaigner** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:36 pm

I agree that Chaos is a longterm team.

It's just that another coach (the local shop owner) has complained about how Chaos teams get ripped apart in the first games and never make it back now that there aren't anymore permanent star players.

I tried to convince him that they can be a real PITA once they all get Block and Guard but he wouldn't listen

so you wouldn't add any players to the team?

c

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 12:51 pm

campaigner "any suggestions? "

yep, dont think fair addition to the roster.

Chaos take a long time to get going. this is because they lack block or surehands. Both skills are needed but that is the price of choosing the mark of chaos. Dont forget how hard they get and can have mutations on every player. With Big hand and surehands you pick up better than a elf in multiple tackle zones. To balance this a long period of underdevelopment is suffered without these skills automatically in the team.
If you must add beastmen positions then consider giving all elf teams 2 strength4 players, and give chaos dwarf throwers to balance things up.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 1:07 pm

campaigner wrote:It's just that another coach (the local shop owner) has complained about how Chaos teams get ripped apart in the first games and never make it back now that there aren't anymore permanent star players.

It seems to me that he's new to the game, I always hear that complaint from rookie coaches "Hey why my team doesn't have that many skills like the Human team?"

Same for rookie Elf coaches, they load up 2-4 positional players in the starting roster and complain they lose every game in the league bc of 1TRR and 2FF.

I guess the choas coach of yours has lost his games bc. he bought 3 (or even 4) chaos warriors and had low TRRs and FF (lot's of turnovers and got moved down with every kick-off result)

Main problem is: Rookie coaches = bad starting roster + poor gaming skill = many lost matches = blame it on the lack of player skills. I've seen this many times.

Skilles teams (= teams with higher ST or AG) are long-term teams, and chaos is the most long term team in the whole LRB, try to tll that your coach. He has to want play Chaos in order to get through that boring initial games ("Tal der Tränen") without scraping the team.

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:08 pm

I can only second that ... the chaos team is really a "phoenix-out-of-ashes" team.

The first 3-5 games you will suffer unless you get really lucky or meet a really bad opponent. These games are not much fun as it seems you can't do anything correctly. (same can happen to an 10 lineman elf team if they suffer some early deaths)

But then the first skills start dropping in and you get more players. Block for the CWs, Block or Surehands for some Beastmen, you get full 4 CWs and an Ogre or Minotaur. If you are lucky you'll grow some mutations as well. Around 150 to 170 of TR the team really becomes competive and from TR 200 they become really dangerous. As soon as you you have some Block+Claw or Block+RSF players and manage to pick up and keep the ball for some turns, even the other bashy teams like Orc will start to fear you.

It's hard to get there, but the reward is certainly there. Only downside is when you play in an open league with no fixed pairings. Then people will queue up to play you as a rookie team, but as soon as you start to become dangerous, everybody will try to avoid you.

I remember an awesome Chaos team, certainly one of the most dangerous teams i ever played against. They could bury complete teams in a single game ... somehow the police of the OLBBL ... hey it's still online, isn't google great

http://members.tripod.com/~SirFozzie/amgoats.HTM

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:13 pm

Well, isn't that team a little over the top? With a TR of 492 (!) even a Snotling team would be dangerous...

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Tue Oct 07, 2003 4:21 pm

Well in 3rd Ed. OLBBL ... this was usual. There was (and still is, check here) a premier division with 300+ TR team the largest one has TR 923.

This is what happens if you don't apply TR limiting factors, award SPP for fouling and crowd cas, allow using apo on opponents and RRing injuries to worse for cash (so almost no deaths occur) and have an online league with several people who have too much time.

I had a TR 480 Skaven team myself, worst player had 3 skills. i think that says it all

Certainly fun for the little powergamers in us all, but at some point it gets boring

Back to beefing up Chaos teams ... if you want to give Chaos teams a little headstart, how about a house rule that during team generation 4 (arguable) players may aquire a random mutation (or a skill roll if you fancy a bigger boost), but then have to skip the first star player roll at 6 SPP. No longterm effect, but a little headstart to make them competitive for game 1.

Xtreme · Post by **Xtreme** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:01 am

TR 923.

Holly Hell, by Nuffle is this possible.
This OLBBL looks nasty, yet I am strangly intrigued as to what it is like playing a game where ever player on you roster is a star player.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:19 am

Had a look at that TR923 team, it's an undead team (The Sincerely Dead), in addition to maxed undead positional players the team has 1x Chaos Warrior, 1x Vampire, 1x Beastman and 1x Dark ELf Lineman and a FF of 34 and a 540K treasury. 3rd ed teams always have and still bore me to death...

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:41 am

Xtreme wrote:
TR 923.
Holly Hell, by Nuffle is this possible.
This OLBBL looks nasty, yet I am strangly intrigued as to what it is like playing a game where ever player on you roster is a star player.

It's fun somehow ... Ballhandling becomes almost automatic, but you'll need a solid strategy to outplay a defence where every defender has 3 skills. The armour and cas rolls become (even more!) the most important rolls in the game.

But narcotic is right, it will become boring after some time. And those ally rules really suck

campaigner · Post by **campaigner** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:24 am

narkotic wrote:
campaigner wrote:It's just that another coach (the local shop owner) has complained about how Chaos teams get ripped apart in the first games and never make it back now that there aren't anymore permanent star players.
It seems to me that he's new to the game, I always hear that complaint from rookie coaches "Hey why my team doesn't have that many skills like the Human team?"

funnily, he's been playing since 2nd ed or so and yet he doesn't seem to have ever experienced a Chaos team get beyond their first 3 games

I know that they can be rewarding to play on the long term. I have had my share of bashes n bruises.

oh, and we have no Chaos coach in our current league... and I don't know how "long term" it's gonna be... well, we'll see.

c

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:29 am

I have experienced that deep rooted 2nd ed coaches have a lot harder time adapting to 3/4/5th ed BB. Usually they slip back into 2nd ed flow of the game which is totaly devastating whereas plyers new to the game faster master the rules as they don't have junks of old rules floating in their head. Of course after some time it equals again.

But believe me, if your league should introduce the beastmen runner and blocker, the chaos team will most probably destroy any team on the pitch after 7-10 matches of development (given the fact that the coach is at least average of course).

Starblayde · Post by **Starblayde** » Wed Oct 08, 2003 11:49 am

narkotic wrote: But believe me, if your league should introduce the beastmen runner and blocker, the chaos team will most probably destroy any team on the pitch after 7-10 matches of development (given the fact that the coach is at least average of course).

Instead of starting to destroy teams after 10-13 matches of development!