Allys a way to make it easy...

WildAnimal · Post by **WildAnimal** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:38 pm

I 2nd edition there was much race mixing, and i want it back BUT i can see that its broken if chaos get Rutter Runners and such without any restriction.
We got ally rules in the LRB, it only handles Big guys, fine they can't use team re-rolls.
I will say that by expanding the ally section to say that they can take a _single_ player from another roster, then this ally can't use Team RR either.
If this is not enough, then the Them apotherie can't be used either!

What are allowed as Allys for these teams:
Amazon: Norse, Humans
chaos: Chaos Dwarf, Norse
C.Dwarf: Chaos, Orcs
Dark Elf: Chaos
Dwarf: Humans, high elfs, flings
Goblin: ?
Flings: humans, Woodies
High elf: humans, dwarfs
human: Dwarfs, high elf, flings, woodies
lizard: Amazon
norse: Humans, Chaos
orc: Chaos, Chaos Dwarf, dark elf
skaven: Dark elf, chaos, chaos dwarf
undead: Dark elf, Chaos
woodies: humans, flings, High elf.

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:46 pm

Putting a Bull Centaur on a Skaven team? Very strange indeed. I do like limiting the allies from using rerolls, though.

wesleytj · Post by **wesleytj** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 11:08 pm

if you're going to do this, you need an extra bit about roster limitations. you want to say that if the original team can't have at least 4 of a player type then it can't be an ally. otherwise you'll have wardancers on human teams and d.e. throwers on chaos teams, and so on.

A guy who's 0-2 on his original roster isn't going to be found selling his services abroad, even if you don't consider the cheddar factor.

duff · Post by **duff** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 5:00 am

How about charging more for any non-linecreature allys.
10K more if they are 0-4 in their origional team and 20 or 30 more if they are 0-2.
Also they would take up a position slot in the "host" team.
Where posible, the most relevent eg catcher for catcher etc. Catchers going into the orcs would take thrower (ball handler) spaces and any non-lineman import to chaos would be at the expence of the Chaos Warriors.[/quote]

Post by **Thadrin** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 8:25 am

brianbbj wrote:I 2nd edition there was much race mixing,

No there wasn't.
There WERE good rules for mixed race teams.
THAT is what blood Bowl lacks, and as the BBMag article proposed this requires entirely new rosters, as additions to the existing rosters are a VERY bad idea indeed - causing huge balance problems.
I feel that those rules have been so watered down in playtesting as to be almost useless. Its not a mixed team anymore, its "humans and a couple of their mates". The chance of a two-race team doesn't exist.

I've been suggesting Dungeonbowl-style rosters for ages now, but noone else seems to like the idea.

WildAnimal · Post by **WildAnimal** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:20 am

Please tell me about it!

And to the other mail.
Yes some of the special position like wardancers and Bull centuar would screw it all up.....maybe the ally list also should include positions, ie. 2 position from each team.lineman+other.

And to answer about the MIXED team answer, yes i know that makeing true mixed team are impossible with the rosters now adays, and i don't know the rules from BBmag, but if they are done by the BBRC i can almost without out seeing them say that they don't do anything serious, as far as I know BBRC are afraid to do some seroius change to the game, concervative lads!

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:31 am

With the current team lists, i do not like allies at all, because it will just provide an easy way around a race's weakness. Check the list of "Best choices" below: Stunties and throwerless teams will choose a thrower (AG4 mostly), slow teams choose a fast player to score (Blitzer or Catcher type), fast teams get a Chaos Warrior to beef up the line. BORING!

I've played the OLBBL with up to 4 allies in a team for a long time and i didn't really like it.

Amazon: Norse, Humans -> Human/Norse Blitzer
chaos: Chaos Dwarf, Norse -> BC or Norse Thrower
C.Dwarf: Chaos, Orcs -> Chaos Warrior
Dark Elf: Chaos -> Chaos Warrior
Dwarf: Humans, high elfs, flings (Highelfs on Dwarf teams???? Gimme a break!) -> Human Blitzer, Lion Warrior
Goblin: Orcs? -> Black Orc or Orc Thrower
Flings: humans, Woodies -> Wardancer/Catcher
High elf: humans, dwarfs -> Human Blitzer / Longbeard
human: Dwarfs, high elf, flings, woodies -> Wardancer
lizard: Amazon -> Thrower
norse: Humans, Chaos -> Chaos Warrior
orc: Chaos, Chaos Dwarf, dark elf -> Darkelf Thrower
skaven: Dark elf, chaos, chaos dwarf -> BC, Darkelf Thrower
undead: Dark elf, Chaos -> Darkelf Thrower
woodies: humans, flings, High elf. -> Human/HighElf Blitzer

Relborn · Post by **Relborn** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:38 am

Please do not take this personal brian, but I do not like the idea of allies at all. The pact teams, when balanced are the best go of representing mixed teams in Bloodbowl.

From my opinion an mixed team should always come of worse than a single race team

los_locos · Post by **los_locos** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 10:20 am

I'm also not a big fan of allies. You pick a race and then you play it with the good and the bad sides of a race!!!

grotemuis · Post by **grotemuis** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 10:41 am

hear hear

rochallor · Post by **rochallor** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 11:40 am

I agree with Relborn - teams are designed with certain strengths and weaknesses - take these away, and I believe you remove much of the team character and therefore the reason that you played the team in the first place! (This is how I choose the teams I play anyway)

Having said that, if you wanted allies, maybe you could only be allowed to take those that correspond to positions already on your team roster - eg a Dwarf team could take a human lineman or blitzer but not a catcher as an ally (of course you would have to work out what players such as wardancers and witch elves correspond with)

Then again, restricting the choices like this probably negates much of the point of having allies in the first place

Post by **Thadrin** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:13 pm

Do that and you end up with a team with High Elf throwers passing to wood elf catchers or handing off to Human Blitzers with a line of Dwarf Longbeards.

BAD.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:37 pm

I think I've been convinced that the Pact teams are bad enough that they ought to be allowed.

Just allowing the mixing of teams (HE team with Longbeards on the LOS

) is a recipie for disaster.

Redfang · Post by **Redfang** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 12:59 pm

I'm still not convinced on the Pact teams. For one thing I really dislike the fact that they can have more than one Big Guy, but I also dislike the whole idea.

BB is a game with a (large) number of teams, all different from each other, all with their own strengths and weaknesses, now choose the team you like most and use your strenghts, and accept your weaknesses. That's part of the game!
Allies will just diminish part of the challenge, part of the fun!

R

Relborn · Post by **Relborn** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:15 pm

I agree with you Longfang. The pact teams should still be balanced, and I do not speak of the changes galak proposed on his site.

But basically if you want to represent a mixed team at all, the way how the pact team rules approach the problem is quite good. Of course 3 BG in the Chaos pact team is way OTT.

We toned the rules down to limit the pact teams to 6 positional players (counting BG as one positional player) AND changed the access to the different allied races slightly.

Talk Fantasy Football

Allys a way to make it easy...

Allys a way to make it easy...

Re: Allys a way to make it easy...

Dungeon bowl style roster?