Idea for secret weapon skill...

[Ithilkir]

Quick idea, not sure if it's been discussed before so apologies in advance if it is.. This is also not 100% thought out and is very rough This skill would replace any rules about purchasing or hiring secret weapons (IE, only players that gain this skill may use secret weapons).

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Unhinged (General Skill)
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An Unhinged player has finally lost all his marbles and is completely insane. Handily however, this player will now have no problems in using secret (and some not-so secret) weapons such as daggers, pogo sticks, chainsaws, cannons on the field of bat.. err, pitch of battle.

A player with this skill may have a secret weapon purchased for him from the list below. You may only buy one weapon for the player and if the Unhinged player is killed or leaves the team then he takes the weapon with him.

Secret Weapon List
Chainsaw (All) - ??? gp
Pogo Stick of Doom (Goblin) - ??? gp
Bombs (Goblin, Dwarf, Chaos Dwarf, Skaven) - ??? gp
Dagger (Skaven, Dark Elf) - ??? gp
Ball & Chain (Goblin) - ??? gp
Death Roller (Dwarf, Chaos Dwarf) - ??? gp

------ Did You Know? ------
The most famous unhinged player was the Chaos All-Stars blitzer Engel "The Exterminator" Von Evilstien, his blatant use of illegal weaponry was only matched by one thing. The Dwarf Warhammerers team!

[franck_le_grand]

I like this.
I'm also trying to figure a way to get secret weapons to players.
This is good because you have to gain one level before purchase any waepon.
Also this skill can only be choosed by linemen or the players that takes up the place for a lineman (ex: beastman on chaos team, and so on)IMO. And maybe it should be a trait, so that it's not so easy to get the weapons.

But I can see you miss the cost for the weapons, here is my suggestions:
Chainsaw (All) - 60K gp
Pogo Stick of Doom (Goblin) - 30K gp
Bombs (Goblin, Dwarf, Chaos Dwarf, Skaven) - 40K gp
Dagger (Skaven, Dark Elf) - 20K gp
Ball & Chain (Goblin) - 50(40)K gp
I'm not so sure about the death roller maybe it's too powerful. But if you choose to take it with you I beleive that it should cost about 100-120K gp.

Le Grand

[Ithilkir]

I was thinking 'only linemen' but clarrifying what a 'lineman' is can be somewhat troublesome and would add more text (the shorter the better). Also, the General trait was another idea that came into my head until I realised that would mean goblins wouldn't be able to use secret weapons and short of adding a "goblins may take this trait as a skill" there isn't a way around it.

Missed out the secret weapon costs on purpose, that's an entirely seperate debate (and I forgot the blunderbuss)

Thanks for the feedback. Only being in a small Java Client league atm, I have no way of play testing it, so I'm more than happy if people do

[Marcus]

Secret weapons are cute, but I'm really happy just keeping them on the goblin team. The idea of skaven with bombs is a little scary. Hell, a GR with a chainsaw is terrifying.

[Thadrin]

No "skilled" position player would ever lower himself to using weaponry...and the idea of gas bombs on pitch is SOOOOOOOOO Skaven its untrue.

Still think the "all teams may buy a lineman equipped witha a secret weapon at (lineman cost+weapon cost). The player is considered peaked. Dwarfs and Goblins are far more liable to attempt to use weaponry on the field, so Dwarf teams may buy two such players, Goblin teams may buy 4."
rule would be a quick and easy solution to the whole thing though.

[Joaquim]

Say... we could have a new class of skills (and Traits) named... never mind, something... open to all players.
The weapons would be detached from any player, but the refree would take it home on a roll of 12 (on the penalty roll).

The Wapons, skill table would look something like this (if the carrying player has the skill the weapon works as LRB):

Name: Cost: Skill: Withouy skill:

Ball & Chain 20K Fanatic (Trait?) No use (Goblins only)

Bomb 40K Bomber Explodes on 2 (or 3?)

Chainsaw 60K Wooder Attacks w/ +2, hurts himself with +4, start with +1

Blunderbuss 30K What is the name? 1,2 like bad kick, 3 to 5 usual, 6 hits

Deathroller 90K Driver (trait?) Must dodge, GIF on 2

Poisoned Dagger 10K Assasin AV roll with -1

Pogo Stick 20K Jumper 1st Leap with -1, 2nd w/ -2... 1st GIF 1, 2nd 2 etc...


Well, this really looks like a good ideia... if I could put it in english!!....


Joaquim

[Mestari]

If a Secret Weapon rule includes anything about buying weapons permanently to the team, that solution is not good.

It's the same reason as to why wizards really should be (and are) freeboot only:
if they can be bought permanently, they create a must-have thing to the team. Most teams would get unhinged players, or peaked SW-players. They could only be lost after the player is either retired or killed. Having them permanently added to the team makes any SW rule bad.

The solution is to have the weapons freebooted. At a reasonably high price so that they cannot be hired every match. Now the weapons become more what they should be: the team deviously hoarding money and making plans to have the secret weapon available for a certain game - only to have it confiscated by NAF officials immediately after the game.

Having them freebooted also makes it feel more real: you can give the weapon to anyone you want, for example to that annoying AG3 longbeard! And don't give me any of that "he wouldn't play anymore without the weapon"-crap: it's clear that the more devious players of BB history have used a variety of weapons in their time. This would make an excellent addition to team fluffs: that AG3 longbeard for example would most likely be a dwarven teams Weapon specialist and gain fame throughout the league and really become a character like many of the stars.

Complete suggestion for freebooted SW's can be found from here:

http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=2266

[Anthony_TBBF]

Still think the "all teams may buy a lineman equipped witha a secret weapon at (lineman cost+weapon cost). The player is considered peaked.

This is pretty much what we are doing next season, secret weapon players will not be able to earn skills and have to be linemen. Secret Weapons are fun but I don't really want them to become monsters on the pitch.

[Joaquim]

Making Secret Weapons a funny thing, not a eficient one....
Exept, perhaps, for goblins and halflings....

Joaquim

[franck_le_grand]

Ok here's my suggestion:

New trait avialble for all linemen positions on teams "Unhinged" (these should be obvius, but in BBM#3 there is a list under the section for ally teams).

The player can gain the trait at any level increase roll on a double, but when he gets it he will loose all other skills he has gained, not started with. In addition the player is considered peaked and will not learn any new skills/traits anymore. However, still record the SPP earned by the player as you'll have to use these later.
Goblins are so crazy about secret weapons that they can take the trait on a double or on a roll of 7.

When the player would have reached a new level, make a dice roll for him according to the table below. If the player fails the roll the player has gone crazy and he will leave the team right away with his weapon. If suceeded he stays.
SPP points D6 roll needed
16 2+
31 3+
51 4+
76 5+
125 6+
Any further the player will leave on a roll of 1-5
(this will handle the problem that mestari talked about)

If the skill is gained at 16+ SPP, make the "Gone Crazy" roll right away.

Weapons Races Cost SPP needed to use
Chainsaw All 60K gp 16

Pogo Stick Goblin 30K gp 6

Bombs Goblin, Dwarf, Chaos Dwarf, Skaven 40K gp 16

Dagger Skaven, Dark Elf 20K gp 6

Ball & Chain Goblin 50K gp 16

Blunderbuss chaos Dwarf 40K gp 16

Let me know about suggestions or questions or thoughts or coments.

Le Grand

[Marcus]

I have to say I'm saluting the freebooted only SWs.

[manusate]

Me too...

[Styrofoam King]

What if, rather than a skill (or maybe WITH the SW required as a skill,) you do the same thing that Big Guys have? A negative that can be forgotten as a second skill: thus, to get any Star Worthy Player, the SW wielder has to advance TWO levels.

Examples:
Bad Sneak- Always add +2 to all referee rolls to see if the SW wielder is thrown out of the game at TDs and Halfs.

Safety On- Your player runs onto the pitch, forgetting to take the safety off. An agility test is required (Same as chainsaw) for ALL weapons, and Chainsaw tests must be taken at -1 AG.

Bonehead- (On account of having to search for the Instruction Manual)

Big Guy- No rerolls, as your guy skipped practice to polish the weapon!

Take Root (4+ miss first match)- Left it at home!

What do you people think?

[Ithilkir]

Freebooted Secret Weapons only available to unhinged players then?

[Thadrin]

I'd like to mix permanence with freebooting through "Upkeep costs". This adds the disadvantage of having secret weapons occupying a roster spot.

Eg Buy the Deathroller for 150k. Pay 50k each time you wish to use it after the first. Occupies a roster spot.

With this you have to weigh up the option of the secret weapon versus that extra lineman...which could be important if you have a few niggled players.