The kick skill

gandresch · Post by **gandresch** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:48 pm

Hi,

i just read glorians (long) disquisition about the kick skill and i thought, that it might be interesting, to add an option. Please tell me, what you think about it.

Kick:
May be used at kick-offs, halve the distance (as it is now) OR modify the direction to a neighbored direction (e.g. kick goes west, then you can modify it to south-west or north-west) but with the full distance of the kick.

This might be interesting.

Greetz,
gan

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:59 pm

Or add that as a new skill "accurate kick".
I for one wouldn't mind some specialized kickers

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:23 pm

The directional idea is good. I've always thought that Kick needs a bit of a boost, but I couldn't find a way to do it that got any sort of approval. I even suggested that it might have two effects, the second being a grubber/dribble kick: when a Kick player moves (is not pushed) into the square with the ball, he may elect not to pick it up and instead scatter it one square using the throw-in template. Then someone pointed out that you'd have a moderate chance of kicking the ball to one of your own teammates who'd get a free chance to grab the ball with no turnover risk. So I dropped that suggestion.

Still like it, though.

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:32 am

Rather than change the direction allowing a reroll of direction or halving distance might be interesting.

tenwit · Post by **tenwit** » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:41 am

Nice one, the reroll mechanic is eay to get people to play test. Could go one further and make the kick roll 2d6 and 2d8, you get to choose which d6 and d8 to keep..

Lictor · Post by **Lictor** » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:53 pm

tenwit wrote:Nice one, the reroll mechanic is eay to get people to play test. Could go one further and make the kick roll 2d6 and 2d8, you get to choose which d6 and d8 to keep..

I like your idea.

In a similar discussion with a friend I wanted to basically only have the directions 1 3 6 8 available but even I thought that was a little too good an option.

frogbear · Post by **frogbear** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:06 am

I like the idea from ianwilliams regarding being able to reroll the directional dice. Not very powerful but allowing that reroll to assist the skill.

It would need to be decided whether it was an addition to the skill already there, or part of a choice - either select half distance OR reroll the directional dice.

Mysterious Stranger · Post by **Mysterious Stranger** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:07 am

What about using the sideline scatter template to determine direction...?

Digger Goreman · Post by **Digger Goreman** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:05 am

Only if one were able to put it on a diagonal....

Let's say I want to kick to the right side of the pitch: I really don't want a 33% chance that the ball is heading back up/down field from where I'd really like it to go... it is a positive skill I've chosen/paid for....

Sorta using your idea: choose three continuous directions and roll 1d6 as a randomizer.... Arbitrarily, let's say directions 4,5,6 are my favored use and 1-2=4th direction; 3-4=5th; and 5-6=6th direction....

khudzlin · Post by **khudzlin** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 1:02 pm

you can always turn it 45°, even if it won't cover the lines (could do the same for a throw-in from a corner)

frogbear · Post by **frogbear** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:20 pm

I would think that the point would be keeping it simple. Introducing the throw-in template would be more time and technique added. A reroll of the scatter direction is simple and faster with no discussion.

It's amazing how long a decision takes to make when a player has a tactical choice rather than just a straight reroll. Extending the length of the game is the last thing we should be looking at in the game of Blood Bowl - especially at a tournament level.

Just my thoughts...

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:27 pm

I think it would be best to do as a second skill, to let a player progress as a kicker.

Kick: as-is.

Bounce!: May re-roll the d8 on the kick attempt. Must be set up as per Kick. If a player uses Kick or Bounce!, no other player may use the other one. If the kicking player uses the Bounce! skill (re-roll or no), catch attempts before the receiving team's turn starts are made at -2.

gandresch · Post by **gandresch** » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:07 pm

Hi!

The idea is very nice, but 2 skills for such things as a kickoff is kind of broken, isn't it? Why not unite this in one skill and make the second option an alternative to the first. That's easy to handle and gives you options that don't make it too strong.
2 skills aren't an option, i think.

Greetz,
gan

Ps: The idea still stays a great idea.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:46 am

gandresch wrote:2 skills aren't an option, i think.

Not sure I see why. As-is, kickers tend to be linos. When they skill again, they tend to go for Block or Wrestle, or maybe Dodge if they start with A access. I don't think a second kicking skill would be more powerful than Kick+Wrestle on a safety or Kick+Block on a blitz-absorbing LB. Note also that a guy with two kicking skills adds 40k lost TV half the time. You could make the secondary skill a Passing skill... or you could make it weak, like "after kicking the ball but before it lands, you may scatter it once," or "attempts to catch the ball before the receiving team's turn starts only succeed on a 6."

Hell, give me 15 minutes and I'll make a Kicker category. If we go so far as to make positionals, Kickers should have KP/GAS access.

Conversely, creating an either-or option on Kick, where one is the current rule, would be seriously problematic. Kick is a top-tier skill as is and shouldn't be objectively better.

Oh, wait. Are you suggesting a change in the definition of the Kick skill to: "Reroll either die (d6 or d8, either way) when scattering the ball, taking the new roll?" I dig that. I also think it would be ok to allow either or both dice to be re-rolled: the ability of the ball to scatter more than 3 squares 25% of the time really changes the math (half distance is dramatically better than a re-roll on a kickoff scatter).

Edit:quote="tenwit"]Nice one, the reroll mechanic is eay to get people to play test. Could go one further and make the kick roll 2d6 and 2d8, you get to choose which d6 and d8 to keep..[/quote]Yeah, that. The RR mechanic is more inline with the rest of BB, IMO, but I don't think the either/or is overpowered.

Lictor · Post by **Lictor** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 3:48 am

Has anyone play tested any ideas yet?