Fixing Khemri

[TeamTræls]

Yeah, I know, provoking title, that was its intention... I don't want to "fix" the Khemmri team, just to try to "rebalance" it so the BBRC has some stuff to work with, instead of just calling it garbage and quitting.

I played two games today, and they both went really bad. I just got out-hammered and out-played. I won't go into exact detail, but I can conclude that either:
- I haven't enough players around
- I haven't enough skilled players around

My team was
3 Tomb Guardians
2 Blitz-Ras
1 Thro-Ra
6 Skeletons
3 re-rolls
2 fan factor

I just either hadn't enough ball-handling skill or not enough power (most likely). I can't see how to fit four Tomb Guardians and two Blitz-Ras in!

I could for example replace the Thro-Ra with a Guardian, remove a re-roll and add a Skeleton. But with this ball-handling skill... I find the re-rolls to be important. This would give me thirteen players. What about then removing one Skeleton and replace him with two fan factor, one assistant coach and one cheerleader?

We sat down four guys (me, my opponnent both times and two others) and talked. We came up with four possible (though not applicable at the same time) changes:
1. Replace Tomb Guardians with regular Mummies again.
2. Give Tomb Guardians Break Tackle for +10.000
3. Reduce cost of Blitz-Ra to 80.000
4. Reduce cost of re-rolls to 60.000 (hey, Tomb Kings are rich.......)

Reducing cost of players/re-rolls would allow for either an extra Skeleton, extra fan factor/cheerleaders/assistant coaches or extra banked gold towards new players later.

We considered adding number 3 and 4, but we ran out of time, sadly. I could see either 3 or 4 along with 2. What do you think? Any more suggestions? If you come up with more, I'll add them into this post.

Let's be constructive only, please.

[PubBowler]

You might want to check the half a dozen previous Khemri threads (including on this page of the New Concepts section) for reasons why the first idea won't work and other ideas that might.

[GalakStarscraper]

just to try to "rebalance" it so the BBRC has some stuff to work with, instead of just calling it garbage and quitting.

3) Jervis Johnson who controls the development of the game has said that effective November 1st 2008 no new changes to Blood Bowl could be introduced for many years to come that were not already in testing as of October 2008.

[TeamTræls]

You might want to check the half a dozen previous Khemri threads (including on this page of the New Concepts section) for reasons why the first idea won't work and other ideas that might.

Sorry, didn't see. Could we maybe transfer some of the knowledge we gained from that thread in the bottom of this board into this thread, thereby not only compromising the data but also bringing some new arguments/discussions in? I think that could be informative.

[TeamTræls]

I dont believe that can be any more than an empty threat. Besides people are very clearly giving you feedback that the new version stinks :?

Can promise you I don't make empty threats ... its not something normally attributed to me.

Bottom line: looking at roster on paper and says "garbage" is meaningless to me and Jervis (as he's said this to me multiple times). I'm pretty sure the other 3 BBRC members feel similarily.

If all that happens between now and next October is folks says the new Khemri roster is no good without actually showing how it performs in league play than the current experimental roster will become official.

You were not around for the early Vault days SillySod when Jervis was very active on the discussions but the one thing he believes in about zero percent for making rules decisions is theorybowl.

Galak

[stashman]

"Fun" Khemri
0-16 Lineman 5 3 2 7 Regenerate, Thick Skull G 40K
0-2 Catcher 5 3 2 7 Regenerate, Thick Skull, Diving Catch*, Catch GA 60K
0-2 Thrower 5 3 2 7 Regenerate, Thick Skull, Accurate*, Pass GP 60K
0-4 Mummy 3 5 1 9 Regenerate, Mighty Blow S 110K
Rerolls: 70K
* Maybe change Diving Catch/Accurate to Nerves of Steel

"Old School" Khemri
0-16 Skeleton 5 3 2 7 Regenerate, Thick Skull G 40K
0-4 Mummy 3 5 1 9 Regenerate, Mighty Blow S 110K
Rerolls: 70K

[TeamTræls]

Still think the thrower guy should have Sure Hands

[Jural]

I like adding Break Tackle and increasing price... but these are not options. Pretty much there are three possible Khmeri rosters barring the unforeseen (JJ jumping in and making changes, basically undermining the BBRC.) I believe they only differ in the mummy/ TG positional

Option 1) 0-4 Mummy 3 5 1 9 Regenerate, Mighty Blow S/GAP 110k

Option 2) 0-4 Tomb Guardians 3 5 1 8 Regenerate, Break Tackle, S/GAP 100k

Option 3) 0-4 Tomb Guardians 4 5 1 9 Regenerate, Decay, S/GAP 100k

Option 1 has like a 0.1% chance of happening, I think, but it's at least in play. One of the other 2 rosters will likely be chosen, pending the playtest data.

It's a harsh reality, but unless the BBRC are lying to us, these are there only options. This means that even if Galak and Ian and the others grow to hate 2 and 3, they still must choose one of the above.

The best move for those who are interested is to jump in and playtest them to gather data. Personally, this team was marginally interesting to me with the Mighty Blow, and I was considering giving it a run if a roster with BT and MA 4 was offerred, but as it is, I think my Blood Bowl life is fine with one less team! I'm academically interested to see which team ends up on top, however...

[GalakStarscraper]

I like adding Break Tackle and increasing price... but these are not options. Pretty much there are three possible Khmeri rosters barring the unforeseen (JJ jumping in and making changes, basically undermining the BBRC.) I believe they only differ in the mummy/ TG positional

Option 1) 0-4 Mummy 3 5 1 9 Regenerate, Mighty Blow S/GAP 110k

Option 2) 0-4 Tomb Guardians 3 5 1 8 Regenerate, Break Tackle, S/GAP 100k

Option 3) 0-4 Tomb Guardians 4 5 1 9 Regenerate, Decay, S/GAP 100k

It's a harsh reality, but unless the BBRC are lying to us, these are there only options. This means that even if Galak and Ian and the others grow to hate 2 and 3, they still must choose one of the above.

Thanks Jural for this post. Its 100% correct.

Galak

[TeamTræls]

I'd take #1 any day, and #2 if not #1.

[GalakStarscraper]

#1 has about a 1 in 10000000 chance of happening.

Would need a world event that took out all 5 BBRC members so that LRB 6.0 never happened. That would be my best guess of what it would take for #1 to happen. I'm sure there are some other scenarios where #1 could happen ... just having trouble thinking of them.

As stated ... the BBRC is okay with Khemri shifting down into Tier 2 with #2 if needed. Just would prefer if #3 gets them into Tier 1 as it is hoped it would. So since #2 is still very much in play and did everything the BBRC wanted a new roster to do except for actually landing in Tier 1 ... its by far the favour to be in LRB 6.0 if #3 fails.

Galak

[TeamTræls]

Holy shit, did I just TRIPLE post? Ooops. Sorry for my continued inconvenience to you, Galak. I'm first beginning to understand the BBRC way of working now... I find it peculiar, but that is irrelevant, not my thing to discuss

[Alamar]

As stated ... the BBRC is okay with Khemri shifting down into Tier 2 with #2 if needed. Just would prefer if #3 gets them into Tier 1 as it is hoped it would. So since #2 is still very much in play and did everything the BBRC wanted a new roster to do except for actually landing in Tier 1 ... its by far the favour to be in LRB 6.0 if #3 fails.

Galak

Any data on how things are going so far? Does #3 seem to be doing its job?

[Dark_Soul]

Yep, #3 seems to be making people stop playing Khemri, thereby doing it's job.

[sumbloke]

Yep, #3 seems to be making people stop playing Khemri, thereby doing it's job.

Our new league season, using RR2008, has three Khemri teams in the rookie category (out of 17 rookie teams).