Kicking

[Joemanji]

I bet most of you remember Chet's kicking rules from a while back. They never quite caught on, even though they made it to official experimental status. I think this is because they were lengthy and awkward, and yet still not really fit for purpose. Chet tried to directly update the 2nd ed kicking rules for the current rules, but ended up with a less accurate and more risky version of a pass. This findamentally misunderstands the purpose of a kick in a game like Blood Bowl (or Rugby), which is to punt the ball upfield either to relieve pressure or to gain position. Chet's rules had much too high a chance risk of fumble or not travelling any distance at all. A kick should actualy fall somewhere between a pass (too high a chance of fumble) and a Hail Mary Pass (too accurate).

Why would we even want to kick the ball? Well at the moment you get a lot of bunching of the play in the middle of the pitch. Strength teams also find it very easy to pin weaker teams back in their own half without them being able to do anything about it.

My Kicking rules would look something like this (edited after discussion):

Add the following to the Extra Rules section:

KICKING THE BALL
A player may attempt to kick the ball as far upfield as he can, although this tends to be wildly inaccurate. Add the Kick action to the list of actions like Move, Block, Pass etc. A player may move before kicking the ball, not not afterwards. Roll a D6. On a 1 the player fumbles the kick, and the ball will fumble in the same way as a pass. On a roll of 2 or more the kick is away! A -1 modifier applies to this roll for every opposing player in the kicker's tackle zone, and for every opposing player within one square of the kicker and closer to the destination square than the kicker himself. A kick may not be intercepted. To resolve a kick the coach simply places the ball anywhere on the pitch and scatters it just like a kick-off. A kick will always result in a turnover, even if it is caught by a member of the moving team. If the ball scatters out of play at any point then the opposing team is awarded a touchback. During play this is resolved by him giving the ball to one player of his choice who is standing in his own half of the field. If a coach has no players standing in his own half of the pitch, or does not wish to give it to them, then the ball is thrown back in by the crowd and lands where it may.

Also change Kick skill so that it effects kick actions.

Modifiy Kickoff Return so that it works on kicks too.

Change Stunty so that it says -1 modifier to passing and kicking.

Possibly change passing so that the ball may not be "intentionally grounded" - i.e. passed to a square that is empty and has only empty squares adjacent to it.





No need for complicated shanking rules, as this is modelled by a kick scattering a long way back in the direction it came from.



Potential new skill, not central to the idea but maybe worth looking at if it adds something valuable to the game:

Up And Under (General Skill)
When the player kicks the ball he may loft it high in the air so it takes some time to come down. After kicking the ball, a coach may roll a D6 at the start of the opposing team's turn. This is how many players must take an action before the ball finally lands. Until then the ball is not in play and may not be held by any player. If a player is standing in the square where the ball eventually lands, then he may attempt to catch it in the same way as a kickoff. If the moving team suffers a turnover before the ball has landed, it will do so immediately. This skill may not be used on a kickoff, where the receiving team has more time to organise themselves.

[MadLordAnarchy]

I'm thinking exactly these thoughts at the moment. My first draft was that a loose ball could be kicked a 1 is a fumble, 2-3 is inaccurate, 4-6 is accurate. It goes 2d6 distance - if inaccurate it scatters via throw-in direction. Can intercept. Is a turnover if not caught. Can't Kick and Pass in the same turn.

[PubBowler]

I like the first suggestion.

Might make Kick more popular on slow teams (seems to be a mainly elven affection) as it gives it more utility.

[Leipziger]

Nice, I think kicking is definitely worth looking at again. Would you want more kick skills to mirror the pass ones, Joe e.g. 'Charge Down' (pass block), 'Pinpoint' (accurate)?


Cheers

Leip

[PubBowler]

I think rather than add Kicking skills maybe just alter rarely taken skills to have an effect.

Diving Catch: Kick can be intercepted.

Pass Block: Can also be used when an opponent kicks.

I don't think Kicks should be made any more accurate (Kick working here will be enough)

[MadLordAnarchy]

Despite the support for it in this thread, I'm not yet entirely sure the suggestion is anything other than a different type of pass and could just be another skill that is similar to Hail Mary.

[antipixi]

The way I read this version of kick it gives everyone hail mary pass, but without the blizzard restriction.

Code: Select all

Hail Mary Pass (Passing)
The player may throw the ball to any square on the playing pitch, no
matter what the range: the range ruler is not used. Roll a D6. On a roll of
1 the player fumbles the throw, and the ball will bounce once from the
thrower’s square. On a roll of 2-6 the player may make the pass. The
Hail Mary pass may not be intercepted, but it is never accurate – the ball
automatically misses and scatters three squares. Note that if you are
lucky, the ball will scatter back into the target square! This skill may not
be used in a blizzard or with the Throw Team-Mate skill.

Perhaps limiting the range to 2d6 + STR squares would make it different enough to stop it making the skill redundant. (Close to what has already been suggested.)

I like the idea in general as it will encourage more people to take diving catch and open the game up when used.

[Kyrel]

As I recall, you are allready allowed to throw the ball to an empty square on the board, which makes it partially moot to have an additional opportunity to simply punt the ball into the other end of the pitch. That being said, your idea is pretty good. The guys I play with and I have used a bunch of kicking rules adapted from the 2nd ed., so I'll make a couple of comments based on our experience.

1) Simply use the Pass action as a Pass/Kick action. If you can both Kick and Pass (and Hand-off) the ball in the same turn, then you really start being able to move it.

2) Up and Under. From personal experience I'll tell you that having the ability to effectively take away an opponent's turn more or less at will is too powerful. By letting Up and Under be used with the Kick-off, you effectively steal an opponent's ability to move the ball for an entire turn, efery Kick-off. Trust me when I tell you that this is broken.
My group and I is presently testing a variant of the Up and Under skill where you can only use the skill on a Kick during a Drive (and hence NOT on the Kick-off), and assuming that you don't fumble the kick, then there is a chance that the ball won't be comming down until the beginning of your next turn where it will cause a Turnover, if it's not caught by one of your players. It's still effectively stealing one of your opponent's turns, but this way there is a chance that it can end up biting you as well.

[MadLordAnarchy]

2) Up and Under. From personal experience I'll tell you that having the ability to effectively take away an opponent's turn more or less at will is too powerful. By letting Up and Under be used with the Kick-off, you effectively steal an opponent's ability to move the ball for an entire turn, efery Kick-off. Trust me when I tell you that this is broken.

I agree with this.

[Joemanji]

Thanks for the responses. I had to rush out to work so I had to leave some points off at the end, so some of these comments I'll edit into the original post.

Nice, I think kicking is definitely worth looking at again. Would you want more kick skills to mirror the pass ones, Joe e.g. 'Charge Down' (pass block), 'Pinpoint' (accurate)?

The point of these rules (in direct opposition to Chet's) was to keep everything as simple as possible. As suggested further down, pass block would be modified to cover kicks. I don't see how a Pinpoint would work (the kick is already 2+), and the theme of a kick is that it isn't meant to be accurate. You can get it away, sure, but not in a reliable fashion.

Despite the support for it in this thread, I'm not yet entirely sure the suggestion is anything other than a different type of pass and could just be another skill that is similar to Hail Mary.

As mention below, this would be an action available to any player, not a skill. It is intended to be a very, very inaccurate version of HMP (unless you invest in Kick).

Diving Catch: Kick can be intercepted.

Pass Block: Can also be used when an opponent kicks.

I meant to add that one player within 3 squares of the kicker could attempt to block. Like an interception but it bounces one square from the blocker rather than being caught. If this is too complicated we'd just make it a normal interception.

Again, I agree on Pass Block (and forgot to put it in the original post).

The way I read this version of kick it gives everyone hail mary pass, but without the blizzard restriction.

Perhaps limiting the range to 2d6 + STR squares would make it different enough to stop it making the skill redundant. (Close to what has already been suggested.)

I like the idea in general as it will encourage more people to take diving catch and open the game up when used.

Yep, I hadn't thought about Blizzards though. Might have to add a caveat for that (disallow kicks altogether or make the scatter 2D6 perhaps).

I strongly believe there is no need to limit the range. There is an implicit limit in that you can't put the kick too near the edge of the pitch, and also in that it can scatter back 6 squares from where it came. Yes, if you are deep in your own half you could potentially put it a long way. But this is not a regular occurance, and this kick action is meant to spread the play slightly by making teams avoid bunching everyone near the ball. As you say, it is meant to open the game up. More in potential than something that happens every game. It is meant to be something coaches bear in mind, rather than something that changes the face of BB (hence the inaccuracy).

Kicking makes the tactic more accuate, but still less so than HMP and that has never been an issue yet.

As I recall, you are allready allowed to throw the ball to an empty square on the board, which makes it partially moot to have an additional opportunity to simply punt the ball into the other end of the pitch. That being said, your idea is pretty good. The guys I play with and I have used a bunch of kicking rules adapted from the 2nd ed., so I'll make a couple of comments based on our experience.

1) Simply use the Pass action as a Pass/Kick action. If you can both Kick and Pass (and Hand-off) the ball in the same turn, then you really start being able to move it.

2) Up and Under. From personal experience I'll tell you that having the ability to effectively take away an opponent's turn more or less at will is too powerful. By letting Up and Under be used with the Kick-off, you effectively steal an opponent's ability to move the ball for an entire turn, efery Kick-off. Trust me when I tell you that this is broken.
My group and I is presently testing a variant of the Up and Under skill where you can only use the skill on a Kick during a Drive (and hence NOT on the Kick-off), and assuming that you don't fumble the kick, then there is a chance that the ball won't be comming down until the beginning of your next turn where it will cause a Turnover, if it's not caught by one of your players. It's still effectively stealing one of your opponent's turns, but this way there is a chance that it can end up biting you as well.

You can, but if you want to throw it more than 6-7 squares you are highly likely to fumble. This is not only counter-intuitive IMO, but adversely effects the game.

Not allowing both a kick and pass action in the same turn is something to consider. However initially I didn't think it would be a problem. You would never pass then kick, as the original ball carrier could kick just as effectively as the second, and without the need to risk the pass & catch rolls. And since a kick will almost always end in turnover, a kick followed by a pass is unlikely. Plus the distance of a kick means players in a position to catch a kick are likely to either a) already have taken action to get there and/or b) be far enough forward that they don't need to pass. I'm not certain or course, but I don't think the combination of a pass and kick is worrying enough to need outlawing.

You may be totally right on the Up And Under skill regarding kickoffs, and I'll take your word for it if you have playtested it. However, I'm not convinced it takes away a teams entire turn btw, to my mind it just dictates where they cage up with the ball. They can still block on the LoS, Blitz with one player, move receivers into their opponent's half. But perhaps making the roll 1-3 touchback 4-6 high kick would more accurately reflect the risk vs reward.

[stashman]

On a roll of 2 or more the kick will not land until the end of the receiving team's first turn.

Goodbye all one-turners!

[Jural]

I want to add that the penalty for kicking (or throwing) the ball out of bounds is very harsh on a kick-off (touchback) but very minimal in this case. Having the ball be thrown back in is incredibly random, but not necessarily a deterrent to kicking the ball.

It may be too complicated, but how about the fans toss the ball back into the opposing team if a player is within 2 squares of the sideline where a kick goes out of bounds?

The crowd is likely angred by the weak act of kicking the ball... Just like the pity and disgrace which traditionally follows kickers in American football.

This makes kicking the ball out of bounds quite harsh, which I think it should be.

[Joemanji]

Yeah, but it is much more likely to go back down the pitch than end up near an endzone. I thought this central to the concept ... it can go: 1-2 back towards the kicker, 3-4 away from the board edge, or 5-6 towards the endzone, in which case it is very likely to go out of bounds again and so go back down the pitch.

But I like your concept. Kicking it outs of bounds should be feared, just like on a kickoff, and if this turned out not to be the case your idea is great (though maybe more than 2 squares as this is Frenzy range). However there are other possibilities, like the crowd always kicking it back towards the kicker (they want to see some action!).

[Joemanji]

Added Pass Block reference, and also changed Kick action so that kicking the ball out of bounds is always a turnover, even if it is latter caught.

Does an Up And Under kick that goes out of bounds need to cause a turnover too? It seems intuitive.

[fen]

Don't see why pass block should work when there is the far more accurately described Kick Off Return available.