Vamps Redux

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 2:54 pm

Not that anyone cares, but here's my take on a vamp roster with a real BB feel to it. The biggest problems with vamps is that they were first designed way overpowered and then they had to be toned down with a negtrait (firtst OFAB, then Bloodlust). There's no reason that vamps need to be totally superhuman, this is BB the vamps can be done to fit BB not the modern movie or novel version. BTW, I really don't care too much for rosters with 2 different types of players on it (usually listed by race not position), their is no reason that vamps can't have regular positions on the team. Thralls being linemen is fine, they are the cannon fodder anyway, keep them the same. Vamps are just undead humans, yes they have gain some abilities to make them a bit better than regular humans, but no need to go overboard. I see the vamps being either stronger or more agile, but no necessarily both at the same time, each position getting a vamp best suited to play that position. I don't like the MA 6 accross the board either, no real reason for it, some vamps would be faster than others (and faster than the "average" human). AV represents toughness more than armour, but decided that as the vamps all have regen, they could have different levels of armour like most teams do, but I gave them Thick Skull to show they are a little tougher than most.

Here's my roster, don't know the costs, someone can figure that out I'm sure

0-12 (0-16 for vault rules) Thralls 6337 none G
0-2 Blitzers 7438 hypno gaze, regen, thick skull (and stab for vault) GS
0-2 Cathcers 8347 catch, regen, thick skull (stab), GA
0-2 Throwers 6348 pass, regen, thick skull (stab) GP

"Big Guy" 0-1 Vamp Lord 6449 Hypno Gaze, regen, thick skull, (stab) GSA

Prices for each player type and RR costs still need to be done to balance thing out, but I'm assuming the vamps will be expensive like elves and a higher than average RR cost (70K?)

I think that with the vault stab ability, the vamps should seem more like vamps than a bunch of crack addicts.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:13 pm

Prices are going to be really high.

The Blitzers I wouldn't price less than 150K and the Throwers and the Catchers not less than 130K.

Also with all their great stats rerolls should be through the roof. Like 90 or 100K

The big guy...not less than 200K.

I suggest dropping Regeneration, Thick Skull and the Big Guy. Maybe go with Shadowing on the the Blitzers, I don't know.

Instead of giving them skills that make them hard to remove give them a special head coach.

Something that allows a thrall to advance to positional status in the event of a death of a vampire.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 3:44 pm

That is breaking the rule "no ST4 and AG4 players on the same roster". That's why Vampire players have such a big negatrait.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 4:25 pm

Never heard of that rule, only rule I knew about was no ST4 starting with block.
I don't know, I don't think have some players with ST4 and OTHER players with AG4 would be anywhere near as bad as players with BOTH ST4 and AG4. If the costs are high enough, you won't be able to start with all the positional players, so you may have to pick between a starting bashy or starting agility team, may not be able to have both.

If that's all too much, then maybe have them all ST4 AG3 with regen and thick skull (stab) and skills for their positions, they shouldn't be as expensive then.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:17 pm

From b-b.net team design formula:

AG and ST at 4+:
a) A team with ST 4+ may not have any AG 4+ players and vice versa.
b) Teams with 3 or more ST 5 players on the roster may have a maximum of 4 players with ST<5 and ST+AG=6 AND no players with ST<5 and ST+AG=7.
c) No player's ST+AG should exceed 7.
d) Player types with 8+ allowed players are limited to a maximum ST of 3.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:32 pm

Well as the vamp team totally disregards the rule anyway (which is a guideline not a universal rule, obviously) with ST4 AG 4 players, there may be a way to make a combo of some ST4 players and some AG4 players work (like making them expensive enough so you will have to choose between one or the other starting out).

Anyway, there's the all ST4 AG3 suggestion and don't say they don't sem like vamps without the ST4 and AG4 statline 0this breaks the guidelines anyway as stated) as it's really the starting skills that gives them the feel of being vamp or not IMO.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:42 pm

Yes, bc they disregard that rule they got OFAB slapped on it. You want AG4 +ST4 but without any negatrait. That's what I wanted to point at.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 5:44 pm

Torg wrote:The biggest problems with vamps is that they were first designed way overpowered and then they had to be toned down with a negtrait (firtst OFAB, then Bloodlust). There's no reason that vamps need to be totally superhuman, this is BB the vamps can be done to fit BB not the modern movie or novel version.

I totally agree!

The current Vamp team is boring, frustrating and, most importantly, not fun.

I really don't see why there can't be a BB Vampire team like this:

Code: Select all

VAMPIRES

0-16 Linemen (Thralls)  40K  6 3 3 7  -  {G}
0-8  Vampires           90K  6 3 3 8  Hypnotic Gaze, Regenerate  {GAS}
0-2  Catchers          110K  7 3 4 7  Catch, Hypnotic Gaze, Regenerate  {GAS}
0-2  Blitzers          120K  7 3 3 8  Block, Hypnotic Gaze, Regenerate  {GAS}

Rerolls @ 70K

Note, in the Vault this would need a slight change to HypnoGaze to retain the base 3+ roll.

There is no need for Vamps to be superhuman. The ones who play BB could simply be less powerful than the ones that lead a WFB army ... they would need to be to be seen in such numbers.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:09 pm

I like Nazgits idea, weak newbie vamps.

fen · Post by **fen** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:42 pm

Nazgit wrote: I totally agree! The current Vamp team is boring, frustrating and, most importantly, not fun.

Quoted for truth, and I'm an avid Vampire loving coach. But its still often a chore and an excercise in frustration.

I don't have the answer though. Short of a revisualisation of the team from the ground up I can't see it changing.

The vampire team box needs a health warning label on it. I know mine now does:

"Warning: This team may cause feelings of rage and frustration. Possible side effects include stress, hair loss and teeth grinding. Use with caution."

Mo · Post by Mo » Sat Sep 24, 2005 8:48 pm

Hypno Gaze and Regen are the key elements of vamp flavour.

I don't think they need the ST4 & AG4 combo of Torg's list. But I do like the extra flavour of Stab for the Vault version. That's an amusing interpretation of biting without the ridiculousnous of Bloodlust.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:06 pm

Personally, I disagree that the Vamps aren't fun. I throughly enjoyed coaching my Vamp team in the MBBL, and that was after making a cardinal mistake in my starting roster (to many Vamps, not enough re-rolls).
Personally, I'd like to see a 0-2 Tomb Guard added (5/3/2/8 Guard, Regen) and I'd be happy.
IMO, the Vamps should be St4 Ag4, else they wouldn't be Vamps.

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:29 pm

I've always thought that the vamp team was one that really could have had positional vampires. There's so many different vampire styles (even in Warhammer) that they certainly don't all need to be the super human Count Dracula/Mannfred von Carstein type. The more animalistic Bat Thing types could fill a role, the decrepid Nosferatu type could fill a role, the sexual Succubis/Incubus types could play a role. etc.

Why limit it to pale faced aristocrats with super human strength and agility.

It seems the trend in Blood Bowl now when a new team is created you take one overpowered position, nerf it with a lame nega trait and surround him with incompetents and call it balanced because it's so random that actual coaching is hardly needed.

What's next? The Minotaur team? 0-4 Minotaurs with 1-16 ungor(snotlings)

bleh.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:44 pm

Dark Lord wrote:What's next? The Minotaur team? 0-4 Minotaurs with 1-16 ungor(snotlings)

God, I hope not, but then I really dislike the Vault Ogre team, and I'm not totally enamoured with the LRB one - much prefer the one we hashed out here.

But, for some strange reason, I'm happy to have the Vamp team as one of x great players, and y poor ones (I wouldn't call Thralls "incompetents", just "not that good"

).

I'd have no problem with having different types of Vamps, but I'd keep them on their own teams - the different Vamp Bloodlines don't get on that well. Much like the MBBL2 versions.

But then someone will complain about it being to many teams.

fen · Post by **fen** » Sat Sep 24, 2005 9:45 pm

I really love these minis and if I'd seen them before I'd of bought them for my vampire team instead.

http://uk.games-workshop.com/storefront ... Img=212228

Though they don't really look like they'd be much use at ball handling.

But there always is potential for other vampire positionals when you have minis like these to pick from.
In fact having just looked at the Mordhiem vampires I should of gone with a custom job for the team.

Oh and I love the Tomb Guard, I always dreamed of having 0-2 Wights on my vampire team.