balanced big guys

[bj0rn]

well, they arent that big...but they are fairly balanced
this is by the old rules so there are no racial characteristics, you might want to add those (throw team mate) where appropriate.
also there are no "bad traits" but they arent as strong...

sorry for the lack of pricing too...

minotaur 5428 - horns, thick skull
ogre 5429 - thick skull
treeman 2519 - thick skull, stand firm
troll 4519 - regenerate
vampire 6338 - hypnotic gaze, regenerate
rat ogre 6428 - prehensile tail

you get the idea...?

bj0rn - ...

[grotemuis]

aren't big guys meant to be BIG BUY'S as in high strength and such! Of course it is better playability wise, but it's not really paying attantion to the reality!

[Pantera]

I think you meant 4419 on the troll?

Anyway, I don't really like the current Big Guy rules. If some, they would need streamlining, now its almost a special rule per BG. There is definitly room for improvement there.

But I don't know about making them weaker. In this case, only the Treeman would be stronger than a Chaos Warrios, Black Orc or Saurus. Btw, shouldn't there be a Kroxigor in there to?

[Zy-Nox]

I like the current big guy rules, dont have any problems with them,Its nice to watch people reliant on them (just because there strong) fail there rolls.......a lot

[GalakStarscraper]

I'll take the current version of the Big Guys thanks.

The Negatives add flavor to the game and are not that difficult to deal with.

Galak

[Pantera]

I'll take the current version of the Big Guys thanks. The Negatives add flavor to the game and are not that difficult to deal with.

Galak

True, but then again also cards added random flavour to the game. And they were removed. Even if it mostly was because of practical/economical causes.

[GalakStarscraper]

True, but then again also cards added random flavour to the game. And they were removed. Even if it mostly was because of practical/economical causes.

Not mostly .... entirely ... the BBRC actually fought to keep them in. Simplification had zero to do with the cards leaving the game.

Apples and Oranges comparing no RC Big Guys and losing the special play cards (especially since I'm one of the folks praising their removal from the game.)

Galak

[Zy-Nox]

Apples and Oranges comparing no RC Big Guys and losing the special play cards (especially since I'm one of the folks praising their removal from the game.)

Galak

I didnt mind the cards,but I hated mine and pit trap I nearly always had one of these drawn against me, and having a card that can stop a td is a nice prospect,but only if you have it.
I just used Random events,for the amount of money ones in there.

[Pantera]

Not mostly .... entirely ... the BBRC actually fought to keep them in. Simplification had zero to do with the cards leaving the game.

Apples and Oranges comparing no RC Big Guys and losing the special play cards (especially since I'm one of the folks praising their removal from the game.)
Galak

But both apples and oranges adds flavour

I'm not for oversimplification, but I still think the current Big Guy rules could be even better than they are now. I don't have any ideas myself, so I play with the RR2001 version, but if something comes up we will try it.

[Zy-Nox]

I'd like to here any of your ideas, when you get them.
The only way I can see big guys getting improved is allowing the loss of Racial charecteristics,but these are fun so I dont really like the idea.

[Pantera]

I would like to change the Wild Animal skill. As it is now, good coaches with WA players use them defensivly. Because as soon they come in contact with a scrimmage line, they can be used against you for a direct turnover in the next round. Also WA is the most changed BG negative skill whereas f.e. Take Root was changed to become much better. Also if I don't remeber wrong, once upon a time Really Stupid was forced to do last of all, and almost all caused a turnover if failed. The change that WA may never recieve assist was another nail in the coffin. So from have been the best negative skill, its now the worst. This of course without chaning the stats or the price of any Big Guys.

As Cervidal mentioned in the Lizardmen tactics, Prehensive Tail Big Guys are great to have on the line as they prevent dodgy teams from getting that easy 2+ dodge out.

So here we have the Rat Ogre, with two thing telling him to be in the scrimmage.

1) As I said before: Hi's BIG, Hi's WILD, Hi's STRONG.... uh.. lets place him in the backfield. Very much against the Rat Ogres nature if I may say.

2) He got Prehensive Tail which is a skill you wont get as much use for on the backfield.

The other WA, Minotaur is more logical to use a bit back because of its horns blitzing power and TTM skill.


Wild Animal (Really Stupid version): Wild Animal's has to have a handler at his side, or else he will not know what to do. Every time you want to take an action with a Wild Animal that hasn't got another player from your team in his tacklezone, you must roll 4+ to do an action. Else the WA will not know what to do, and stands still without a TZ. If you have a handler at his side, you must roll 2+ to control the WA when taking an action with him. WA's don't get Frenzy. You can assist WA's.

Wild Animal (random version): You may not take a Blitz action with your team until you have taken an action with the WA. If you do, your opponent may call for Illegal Procedure. When taking an action with your Wild Animal roll a die. On a 3+ he can take a normal action as specified. on a roll of 1-2 he goes berzerk and must Blitz the nearest player, friend or foe. If several players are beside him, choose randomly which player he attacks. When he berzerks, he uses the Blitz action even if he stands beside the player he attacks. The WA may not continue to move after the block. If the WA knocks down one of your players, it causes a turnover. WA's don't get Frenzy. You may assist WA's exept when they get berzerk.

Wild Animal (public version): Wild Animals are hard to control. They get really angry at all those faces in the audience. When taking an action with the WA you must roll a die. On a 2+ he may take the wanted action. But if you roll a '1' the Wild Animal goes berzerk and charges up in the audience. On the next setup the WA is back. WA does get Frenzy. You may assist WA's.


I don't know, I'm not that good at thinking up new rules. Anyone else have a better suggestion maybe?

[Zy-Nox]

Your public version is similar to the old WA rules(just toned down).

Roll d6 when you want to take an action 2+ normal move,on a 1 the player goes beserk and attacks the nearest player,friend or foe,he moves his full move and then blocks the player(does not count as the team blitz),This was pretty fun if you had a whole team of them ,
I dont have a problem with the current WA rules though, as For ratogres in the back field,their prehensile tail can come into use when they jump on those catchers running through.

[Longshot]

i dont like Big guys that are not BIG GUYZ!!!
So i ll not take yours.

[Trambi]

Big guys with strength of 4 are not big guys !!!

[Vitalis]

My wifes nephew loves a game of cards called 'War'.
Basically you each draw a card. The high card wins both cards.
The game ends whenever one player holds all the cards.

This game is entirely random and completely unchallenging.
Two things in games, I do NOT approve of.

Blood Bowl is always challenging.

BUT the negative traits on the Big Guys adds a substantial random element to any game.
The Big Guy simply has too much impact on any game.
Currently several are complaining about the Wild Animal trait losing them team turns.

Adding completely random modifiers to this strategical game, that I love is IMHO a bad, bad idea.

Someone said "Dont criticize without suggestions."

In stead of negative traits we could agree on limiting skill access on the big guys. Only strength skills access for example.
Or we could downsize their stats somewhat. Lesser MA, AG, AV for example.
Or any combination of the above.

But please don´t hang on to this IMO totally redundant random introduction to Blood Bowl.