New Handicap Table ... right idea?

[Orin]

I'm going to use this new handicap table in my league and have put in on our website. I don't expect this to be a problem, just thought to mention it.

Thanks

[DoubleSkulls]

I think Doc in the house is a bit much. I would drop the BH to KO. It keeps the big hurts from sticking, but won't make it much less.

Assassin is a bit much too, I'd prefer it to be random, or 1-4 = KO, 5-6= BH.

Would you chose to give up two 20's for the chance of either of these?

40 pointers need to have a big impact - otherwise they'll never get chosen.

[Jugular]

I think BH to KO could be dropped, but I agree that the Assassin should be more effective. Maybe 3+ BH, No Apoth.

[GalakStarscraper]

40 pointers need to have a big impact - otherwise they'll never get chosen.

Even with the changes ... in 5 games with 40 point or more difference so far only two games choose the 40 point result. In other words, Ian is right. Yu might think they look too much ... but so far my coach's aren't convinced they are worth two 20 point results. I'm keeping very close watch on this as what coaches take is something I plan to report on later as it will tell me if the categories have results equal to their cost.

Nerfing the 40 point results that are currently there won't make them more attractive.

The change to Assassin makes it equal to I Am the Greatest (one very good player lost for game) ... it also makes it work well if you get both results as you could Assassin a player other than the top 2 SPPs.

If you get rid of the BH to KO part of Doctor in the House it will have no impact at all on the underdog's chances to win (which was the whole point of the handicap table remember? )

Galak

[Joemanji]

I'm surprised "Under Scrutiny" isn't on there somewhere. Not having to suffer fouls goes is a very useful way to keep the underdog alive - which is one purpose of handicaps, isn't it? To make sure the weaker team doesn't get wiped out?

[GalakStarscraper]

I'm surprised "Under Scrutiny" isn't on there somewhere. Not having to suffer fouls goes is a very useful way to keep the underdog alive - which is one purpose of handicaps, isn't it? To make sure the weaker team doesn't get wiped out?

Under Scrunity is again very very often a do nothing effect. While fouling is a valid tactic .. my two leagues removed this effect from the LRB table as most of the coaches receiving it felt it had no impact at all on their games.

Example ... I'm not a fouling coach ... getting Under Scrunity while playing against me is a pretty good way for me to win as you just received zero help for your handicap.

Galak

[Sixpack595]

If your opponant is under scrutiny you can foul more. Just cause they don't choose to use the 'cap don't mean it isn't worthwile.

If so few people are choosing 40pointers as it is, and most of the concern lies with that table, why not just drop it? Leave it at 2 tables, and call it a day. One of the reasons people mentioned not liking the purchase handicap system was the need to know the tables to make a wise choice. By dropping to 2 tables its easier for noobs to know what table to pick from.

Under Scrunity is again very very often a do nothing effect. While fouling is a valid tactic .. my two leagues removed this effect from the LRB table as most of the coaches receiving it felt it had no impact at all on their games.

Example ... I'm not a fouling coach ... getting Under Scrunity while playing against me is a pretty good way for me to win as you just received zero help for your handicap.

Galak

[pfooti]

Perhaps reversing the Handicap then, so it allows the team with it to foul without being ejected (or replacing the IGMEOY with a straight 6+ roll for all fouls or something). So then you can use it no matter what. Forgive me if this is a different 'cap already, I haven't looked at the new tables in a few days.

[GalakStarscraper]

If so few people are choosing 40pointers as it is, and most of the concern lies with that table, why not just drop it?

Its starting to even out. Since I got rid of Appearance Fee and put in Assassin ... now the last two coaches have picked 40 point results.

Last two game started with handicaps were TR 100 vs TR 227. and TR 100 vs TR 100

Players took one 40, three 20s, two 10s in the 127; and one 40; two 20s, two 10s in the 100 diff match.

So they are starting to get taken now. The Appearance Fee might have been the reason before. A lot of the bigger teams rolled into this new season with a lot of cash so that Appearance Fee would have been a null handicap result and coaches were avoiding that. With App Fee gone, the 40s are getting taken now.

Galak

[High & Mighty]

In the Bag actually seems like a pretty weak handicap for 40 points. Winning the toss can eliminate it completely if you score first. Also, the opponent can use fouling to get some scrubs kicked out (creating more CAS) to get their better players on the field.

What about swapping In the Bag with Kid's Glove, and changing Kid's Glove to always prone instead of stunned. At least that way, you know you can eliminate the fear of the biggest, baddest hitter for the entire game.

The fear I would have in taking multiple 40 point rolls right now would be that four rolls could overlap and leave you with less effect, whereas every player effect in the 20-point table has a choice. But allowing choice in the 40-point results could leave the stronger team with no players, which isn't any better...

[Sixpack595]

Play smarter. Hold off on scoring and try to maul your opponants best on pitch players before you punch it in. If you play a sissy team I guess you would choose to kick to reduce the time spent getting abused by the bad asses. I've allways loved that result, it payed off every time I got it.

In the Bag actually seems like a pretty weak handicap for 40 points. Winning the toss can eliminate it completely if you score first. Also, the opponent can use fouling to get some scrubs kicked out (creating more CAS) to get their better players on the field.

[GalakStarscraper]

In the Bag actually seems like a pretty weak handicap for 40 points. Winning the toss can eliminate it completely if you score first.

MBBL/MBBL2 have had this results for a while now ... I've seen many games were the better team never loses their lead ... thus with a 15 man roster it meant their 4 best players missed the game (which is a pretty good effect compared to the other 40 pointers) ... if they start doing stupid fouls to get rid of their own players ... again they'll lose more players than any other handicap effect would cause.

So In Da Bag is yin/yan ... but definitely I think its a good result.

At this point ... I'd like to see the table go through its paces a bit. If coaches take only one 40 point handicap that's fine. For the most part I really don't want to ENCOURAGE 80+ TR difference matches if we can avoid that.

Galak

[Mestari]

I won't read through the entire thread closely, but after skimming through the thread I have this to say:

1. This is still by far the best suggestion for handicap that I've seen - it has a huge amount of choice and variety.

2. Secondly, it can be easily adapted and modified. You want more results? Add a table which costs 15points, for example. Or allow people to choose from two alternative 10point tables! Easy for those league commissioners who want to adapt the handicaps to their specific league environments. One could even make race-specific handicaps! That along these basic handicap tables you could buy from, you would have a race-specific table. Goblin table would cost 5 points and give pogo-sticks, wacky and most likely disastrous dirty tricks, etc.


3. Considering the handicaps themselves, IMO a result that is worth twice the points, should be over twice as effective. But not so much that there's basicly no choice in there.

[DoubleSkulls]

In the Bag actually seems like a pretty weak handicap for 40 points. Winning the toss can eliminate it completely if you score first. Also, the opponent can use fouling to get some scrubs kicked out (creating more CAS) to get their better players on the field.

Currently In the Bag can be completely useless - because if you get it at 11 TR difference taking the lead is almost certain. However against a team at least 40 points better you are less likely to be able to score anyway. So its got a bigger impact the bigger the difference.

[Thadrin]

MBBL/MBBL2 have had this results for a while now ... I've seen many games were the better team never loses their lead ... thus with a 15 man roster it meant their 4 best players missed the game (which is a pretty good effect compared to the other 40 pointers) ... if they start doing stupid fouls to get rid of their own players ... again they'll lose more players than any other handicap effect would cause.

My one experience of in the bag left me playing a game with one runner, one blitzer and no slayers until about three turns remained. I still won, but it was VERY tough going. I was playing against Orcs, so no Slayers really hurt, but the speed loss wasn't so bad (and my runner, who sat reading Spike! all game, got the MVP. Youo have to laugh).