Talk Fantasy Football

kerrygray8 wrote:As an aside, does anyone else think it seems wrong to allow Daemonettes / Bloodletters / Horrors / Plaguebearers to have Mutations? I can't imagine a Bloodletter with 2 heads; or a Daemonette with 4 arms...... maybe some leeway with the Plaguebearers.....

I've always imagined these 4 creatures to be set 'templates' that are churned out en masse by the 4 gods........they are almost 'Mutations' in and of themselves in a sense............. just a thought!

Yeah they mutate, but not in the random way like the creatures of the chaos wastes. They are given chaos gifts for pleasing their gods. It was fairly common to see Daemonettes with Prehensile Tails for example back in the day. But each of their gods had their own specific mutations and there were FAR FAR more back then. Quite a lot of bad ones too, like 'Funny Walk', 'Spontaneous Combustion' and 'Stalk Eyes' and so on.

But to represent their mutations only as gifts I think M on a double only seems fair. But then I'm also firmly in the camp of all single roll mutations should always be random

I don't think Daemonettes would be that overpowered, imo they are interesting and different to present teams. I would although do the rest of the team a bit different, maybe like this:

0-16 Pleasure Slaves - 50k - 6/3/3/7 - Thick Skull - GM / ASP [This make them the punching bags on the pitch. Jump Up instead would also be interesting, no team with a lot of that yet. Does that fit their fluff?]
0-4 Daemonettes - 100k - 7/3/4/7 - Claws, No hands, Hypnotic Gaze, Regeneration - GA / SP [No mutations imo, they are already their gods perfect creatures. Chaos Dwarfs dont have mutating BCs either ]
0-4 Dark Elf Renegade - 80k - Animosity - 6/3/4/8 - GAM / PS
0-8 Rerolls - 70k
Apothecary: Yes

[Keep in mind i prefer 7 variants, so i always think about how it will play there.]
This way the Dark Elfs could play a mobile hitting game, while the Dark Elfs could play the mobile running ball carrying game. Big Guy does not really fit the character of the team imo. Just because its a Slaanesh team you don't need to have his great demon on the pitch. Think of it as if Slaanesh thought really hard about how he thinks Blood Bowl should be played

Btw, i though about the Lineman of a Tzeentch Team?

0-16 Horror - 60k - 6/3/3/8 - Extra Arms, Dodge - APM/GS

Just thought about that because i am puzzled on the passing access of chaos pact marauders and pit fighters. This would be a team where it actually makes sense to have passing access on linemen. And with extra arms it would not be that horrible to take Passing/Catching/Dump-Off skills either.

kerrygray8 wrote:
As an aside, does anyone else think it seems wrong to allow Daemonettes / Bloodletters / Horrors / Plaguebearers to have Mutations? I can't imagine a Bloodletter with 2 heads; or a Daemonette with 4 arms...... maybe some leeway with the Plaguebearers.....

I've always imagined these 4 creatures to be set 'templates' that are churned out en masse by the 4 gods........they are almost 'Mutations' in and of themselves in a sense............. just a thought!

Agree. I go with the models I see.

So it is.
Daemonettes: Claw, no mutations
Bloodletters: Horns, no mutations
Plaguebearers: FA and DP, mutations with doubles
Horrors: Mutations with normal roll.

P.S. no hands on the Daemonettes is simply wrong.
If you see the 5th and 6th ed WFB Daemonettes it's crystal clear that they can switch between hands and claws at will.
It's just an excuse to discount them, making them both powerful AND cheap.
Beside that no one except big guys and secret weapons has negatraits, in the whole game (bar decay).

Vampires have bloodlust which is one of the worst negatraits.

You can’t really give hypno gaze regen and claws to a player with Wood elf lino stats without either making them incredibly expensive or giving them a serious drawback.

I think dropping both regen and gaze would make them affordable and you could always give them something like disturbing presence or even very long legs.

Having dark elves seems a bit off as I can’t really see them fraternising with humans. Daemonettes already do the AG4 thing fine. You could made them a cult of Slaanesh team based on the Storm of Chaos fluff if you want to go the WHFB fluff route. That army had a very nasty druchi anointed option, which would make a good big guy. I’d like to see an agile big guy with lower strength.

As I said before, why not build Daemonettes with AG 3? AG 3 already covers a wide range of players - from tubby Halfling Linemen to lithe Amazon Catchers - so why not represent the 'agile' nature of Daemonettes (if that is a key part of the their fluff - my knowledge of such things is based on hazy recollections of the late 1980s...) with skills / skill access and MA.

This would leave the uber AG (4) to the traditional 'incomprehensible magic / faerie dexterity' of elves (of all flavours). And some frogs and rats.

What would you think of the following experimental rosters? (these are intended for Blood Bowl 7s - which generally halves all positionals with 10 players on the roster max)
Maybe No Hands on the Daemonettes is not true to Fluff, but it is imho a further interesting point that would differentiate a new team. And to say it is a cheap way to make them not overpriced downplays the real drawback of it [Think about it, you cannot accelerate their development by touchdowns, and without doubles they are nowhere near reliable killers)

And the tzeentch team is my idea of a team with passing access on lineman done right (I hate the fact Chaos Pact and Khorne Linemen have access to passing skills)
Without further ado:

Tzeentch Team
0-10 Horrors Mv 6, St 2, Ag 3, Av 8 – Dodge, Extra Arms AP(M?)/GS 60gp
0-2 Changelings Mv 6, St 3, Ag 3, Av 8 – None GASPM/- 70gp
0-2 Tzeentch Warriors Mv 6, St 4, Ag 3, Av 8 - None GSM/AP 100gp

Team Rerolls: 70gp, Apothecary: Yes

Slaanesh Team
0-10 Pleasure Slaves Mv 6, St 3, Ag 3, Av 7 – Thick Skull G/ASPM 40gp
0-2 Dark Elf Renegade Mv 6, St 3, Ag 4, Av 8 – Animosity GAM/SP 70gp
0-2 Daemonettes Mv 6, St 3, Ag 4, Av 7 – Claw, Hypnotic Gaze, Disturbing Presence, No Hands GA/SP 100gp
Team Rerolls: 70gp, Apothecary: Yes

i personally do not use any chaos team other than the standard because i feel the fun with chaos is the mutations, you can effectively build what type of chaos team you want. for me, they are the most adaptable of all teams. its just getting there that can be a bit slow (not always). i have tried the lrb5/6/house rule minor tweak with the nurgle team, and admittedly, that was fun. dam rotters can never hold it together lol.

I'd remove the normal access to mutation on the daemonettes, and just load them with the correct one at "creation".
Maybe they could start with AG3, with AG access and let the skill up make them as efficient as wardancers. With Claw they will always be candidates for heavy hitting blitzers begging for a double to pick up Mighty Blow. Why not do something different and remove St access? I have removed Passing access due to the "no hands" but feel free to add it at no cost if you think they should get leader.

0-2 Daemonettes Mv 6, St 3, Ag 3, Av 7 – Claw, Dodge, Hypnotic Gaze, Very Long Legs, No Hands GA/M 100gp

I think they would develop very differently from typical blitzers and might bring the change I'd hope a new team would bring.

Tzeentch Team
0-10 Horrors Mv 6, St 2, Ag 3, Av 8 – Dodge, Extra Arms AP(M?)/GS 60gp
0-2 Changelings Mv 6, St 3, Ag 3, Av 8 – None GASPM/- 70gp
0-2 Tzeentch Warriors Mv 6, St 4, Ag 3, Av 8 - None GSM/AP 100gp

Team Rerolls: 70gp, Apothecary: Yes

Slaanesh Team
0-10 Pleasure Slaves Mv 6, St 3, Ag 3, Av 7 – Thick Skull G/ASPM 40gp
0-2 Dark Elf Renegade Mv 6, St 3, Ag 4, Av 8 – Animosity GAM/SP 70gp
0-2 Daemonettes Mv 6, St 3, Ag 4, Av 7 – Claw, Hypnotic Gaze, Disturbing Presence, No Hands GA/SP 100gp
Team Rerolls: 70gp, Apothecary: Yes

(0-10) + (0-2) + (0-2) = 0-14
that's sound very strange not to be able to reach the maximum of 16 players in team without the help of starplayers...

these Pleasure Slaves are hobgelins with thick skull for free, and access to mutation... for the exact same price.
i would change them to
0-16 Pleasure Slaves Mv 6, St 3, Ag 3, Av 7 – Thick Skull GM/ASP 50gp


and concerning the tzeench roster, i prefer the "fumbbl roster" for this god.

Babass

The 0-10 basic/14 max is fairly typical for BB7s, where 10 is the max roster size.

Also, I suspect the thrall+thick skull price is based on the NTBB test costing. Is it thematic, though?

In my mind, the Necro roster can be very easily converted to behave as Slaanesh.

I have a strange question...
As the daemonette of Slaanesh has "No Hands" but access to mutations...

Could she get an extra hand or a big hand to actually GET A HAND ? !!!

Slaanesh Cult Teams
QTY Position Cost MV ST AG AV Skills
0-16 Linemen 60 6 3 4 7 GA SPM
0-2 Deamonettes 100 6 3 4 7 Claws, No Hands, Hypnotic Gaze, Regeneration GA SP
0-2 Witch Elves 110 7 3 4 7 Frenzy, Dodge, Jump Up GA SP

Reroll: 50K, Starplayer: LEWDGRIP WHIPARM, ELDRIL SIDEWINDER, HORKON HEARTRIPPER, ROXANNA DARKNAIL, HUBRIS RAKARTH, MORG ’N’ THORG

i think somethink is missing on the linemen to see this roster more "slaneesh"

Why not a lineman like this:
0-16 Linemen 70 6 3 4 7 GAM SP

Then, only 4 positionnal (0-2 and 0-2)
even if both are great values!
i find find it very few
only Halfling have less
=> why a beast of slaneesh as big guy? (animal sauvage, no hand, claw, ...)
and/or
=> 0-4 Witch Elves

Maybe it would be nice if those Witch Elves and those Deamonettes have access to M (on double?)

RR @50k sounds too cheap for a chaotic roster even if it's another elfic roster actually. I would say 60k (like standard chaos roster)

I would only give them a few positionnal because hypo-gaze is very strong, so that tones them down.

I could all of Slannesh having Foul Appearance like the Nurgle, but for the opposite reason. They are so beautiful.

0-16 Linemen 70 6 3 4 7 Foul Appearance, GAM SP