New Strength Skill

[sean newboy]

By the way, Zombies poll on the exp/lrb aging, proves that maybe u shouldnt consider your poll the center of the debate.

[GalakStarscraper]

Galak, if you think I have nothing but bullshit to say then remove me from the MBBL.

I hope you just read that the reason I said this was because Chet agreed to a rule change for Season 3 of the MBBL based on your testing which has been up on the MBBL site for 2 weeks. IE you made the comment that the MBBL never changes anything, but we did and specifically from your testing. So what does this mean:
1) Your opinions had merit
2) Your testing was reviewed
3) Your input resulted in a change.

The statement I said was BS was because what just happened in the MBBL directly contradicted everything you were saying in your post.

All I've done is state the the truth but if you think I'm just slamming you

Eric, deep breath. I think you'll see from Sean and I's posts that you were stating the truth as you saw it but not how it really was. I took it as a slam because you have been very vocal and its the way you phrase things. If I said about your league that you commished, that you never really looked at your own data and only used it prove points you wanted to make, I think you'd respond defensively as well. That's what you said, I was just trying to refute the statement.

and trying to burn down the EXP system and the MBBL out of spite or jealousy or something then remove me.

Look Eric, I have NO vested interest in EXP. Really I don't. I didn't come up with the idea and I don't deserve any credit for any piece of the concept. The MBBL uses EXP because I've been told that its is coming as an experimental rule and the BBRC wanted data. I'll support whatever system works best. I really don't care. So far EXP is the best system I've seen proposed. And I've never implied that you nail the MBBL out of spite or jealousy ... I'm really not even sure why you would even say that.

I really have lost a lot of respect for you if you can't look at both sides of the coin and getting your name on the Blood Bowl box is more important than making rules we enjoy.

Huh??? Okay. Eric no rule I've ever written or suggested has become official. I really don't care about having my name on the box, and I'm really surprised to hear you suggest this. I'll say it again, I don't make the rules for the MBBL ... I'll say this as many times as it takes to sink in. I make the rules for the MBBL2 and if there was EVER a league rule set that is about making rules for the coaches to enjoy it the MBBL2 ruleset (in my opinion the fact that they are fun is why 4 other leagues use those rules as their basis for their leagues). I would think by now you would know that BB is definitely not to me about my personal glory. I think the bottom line is that we really don't get each other.... it happens.

But I hope you see from the above, that I don't understand why you've lost respect for me simply because I'm a commish of a league that 7 other people write the rules for and I run. If you lost respect for me based on the MBBL2, I would understand ... but for running the MBBL I don't understand, since my opinions really mean jacksh*t for purposes of that league. I'm not sure why you'd lose respect for me for this. There are cases in history where I would lose respect for someone doing as they were told, but running a BB league is not one of them.

Case in point, I think JJ's Ogre roster is completely stoned and no way would I allow it in the MBBL2, but the MBBL is testing it because JJ is part of the BBRC and he requested it. If you want to lose respect for me Eric, please do it over something that I did .... not somebody else.

Galak/Tom

[Ghost of Pariah]

So are you so vehemtly championing the EXP system when there is obviously a serious lack of support?

[Ghost of Pariah]

The Pact teams are a perfect example. Lots of people still have reservations about them but according to Fanatic they are just fine.

I dont see your point here, i need clarification.

Look around the board. Many people still don't like the Chaos Pact team in particular. Look around. Or better yet, ask.

Galak to my knowledge has never gone to the bbrc and said hey the mbbl2 proves x, the fact that he has said it in general on this board is not the same thing.

I never said that he went to the BBRC. I said he uses to prove its rules are balanced universally. They aren't. There are several posts on this board where he has stated that a rule/team is okay because the MBBL 2 uses it.

He still claims support for the EXP system, but where is it? Only 3 people on this board voted in favor of testing it!

I havent been following that topic for a while, how many of the some other system want one that incorporates exp, other than myself?

Run a poll and find out. I did mine and I stand by the results.

[sean newboy]

Look around the board. Many people still don't like the Chaos Pact team in particular. Look around. Or better yet, ask.

I dont even know what im looking for is the point. I am asking, im asking u. ??????????????????????????

never said that he went to the BBRC. I said he uses to prove its rules are balanced universally. They aren't. There are several posts on this board where he has stated that a rule/team is okay because the MBBL 2 uses it.

Once again lets sererate the mbbl from the mbbl2. Lets not compare apples and oranges. One is a basic league for bb rule testing, one is for fun. The mbbl2 is balanced, for itself. U keep trying to bring up mbbl2 everytime u bring up mbbl.

Run a poll and find out. I did mine and I stand by the results.

Why dont i just accept Zombies poll? He even asked u, in yours, to let his stand due to the more complete choices. This point in particular leads me to believe that the ego problem isnt Galaks but yours.

[GalakStarscraper]

So are you so vehemtly championing the EXP system when there is obviously a serious lack of support?

I don't vehemtly champion. EXP is better to me than a lot of other systems. On Zombie's more balanced poll, I even said flat out that I could easily support a simple SPP based system not linked to skills that doesn't have escape ability like the current one does and I even said that it would surprise you to see that as an aging table I'd like it to support one that favors on-pitch removal of the player.

You cannot see it Eric so I'll post the MBBL2 poll that is currently going and ends on Saturday:

Code: Select all

The MBBL2 will be dropping skill based aging before Round 4 of Season 3. Which method should replace it? All systems below will still have MVPs given at one per game. 
1)   EXP aging using the SI table and starting at 7 EXP  
2)   EXP aging using the SI table with no MNG effects starting at 6 EXP  
3)   EXP Aging using the SI table using a D8 instead of a D6, aging starting at 8 EXP  
4)   Roll for aging every 20 SPPs, D6 roll, 1-3=-1 AV, 4-5=Niggle, 6=No effect

Whatever has the most votes wins. That's how I run my leagues.

The other thing that you'll please notice is not a single one of these match what the MBBL is currently testing. I like EXP but I think it needs tweaked to function better.

As I stated, I only run the MBBL ... I don't make the rules for it. Using the MBBL as any yardstick as to what I want and what I prefer will only result in you being wrong everytime.

I hope this MBBL2 poll proves that your belief that I'm vehemetely championing the EXP system is inaccurate. I think you just cannot understand how I can run a league where I don't agree with the rules of the league, so you continue to believe that how the MBBL runs is how I think and what I believe ... its not. Its because I want what is best for the game I love. It has nothing to do with ego or my name on a box as you imply, but everything about me and 40+ other coaches being able to voice our opinions on the balance (not likeablility necessarily) of a rule before it is made official.

The MBBL2 is a much better yardstick of me personally than the MBBL. Fortunately Sean has been trying to explain the same things I have about this topic so you are getting two different wordings.

Finally, just because the MBBL2 uses special rules doesn't completely invalidate an opinion about how a type of rule functions. If house rules removed the ability to have an opinion about something in the LRB, then no league could have an opinion as even leagues like the REBBL and TRUBBL have house rules.

Galak

[GalakStarscraper]

For all those of you interested in discussing Stiff Arm ... sorry for the public discussion between Sean, Pariah, and I.

Galak

[Zombie]

Why dont i just accept Zombies poll? He even asked u, in yours, to let his stand due to the more complete choices. This point in particular leads me to believe that the ego problem isnt Galaks but yours.

Sean, stop making out my poll into what it isn't. The pol that was supposed to replace his hasn't even been posted yet. I didn't get the quality responses i was looking for in my thread where i asked people to list different systems, so i'll have to dig a little bit before posting a proper poll. With projects due and exams, i'm a bit busy right now, but the semester ends in two weeks, so i promise it will be done by then.

The poll you're talking aout is just about what a good system should be based on, and not about the systems themselves. It's a different beast entirely.

[sean newboy]

The point i was trying to make is that why should we take his poll as an end all be all of the subject when many of the people who said some other system may be willing to take an exp Based system. Certainly the 6 who voted on your poll are more than the 3 on his (yes yours is asking about systems, however exp is one possible game based system isnt it ?). Also your point only covers 1 of his many problems with Galak/mbbl/mbbl2. Polls are an easily abused form of debate, he knows this, he has complained about several others on this board, and yet he has no problem using his polls to try to enforce his ideas, even when his polls too are inaccurate.
Im also annoyed at him even bringing up all this stuff on a Topic that has nothing to do with aging or polls, to be honest this is what got my goat in the first place. His dislike of the mbbl2 and Galak has him fighting galak/mbbl2 rather than the skills themselves. In fact after reviewing this whole topic i dont see anywhere where Pariah actually debated the 2 skills in question at all, just where he dismissed them out of hand due to the fact that they were first made popularly available in Galaks MBBL2. Whats particularly galling is the fact that neither of the skills in question were even created by Galak. I enjoy the mbbl2, let pariah beat his drum somewhere else where i dont have to hear about it.
I dont support Stiff arm or Jam because they are on the mbbl but because i dont think that due to their own rules that they are broken/off balanced. Heck i dont even advocate people taking Jam at all.

[Dark Lord (retired)]

Actually Sean, if you look Pariah claims that he doesn't know about the MBBL 2 in his first post and secondly somebody else said that he thought Galak would pop and say it worked fine but his "blood bowl sense was tingling." I think you are jumping all over Pariah's case for discussing the skill the same way somebody else in the thread did. I don't see him attacking anybody personally until you attacked him. Maybe he could be a little nicer but I don't think he said anything out of line or that he was completely alone in his feelings. Maybe you should just relax because to me you look like the instigator here.

[Zombie]

(yes yours is asking about systems, however exp is one possible game based system isnt it ?).

You still don't get it. My poll is not about systems that have been proposed so far. My poll is about the basic concept around which people believe an aging system should be based on. Read the original post on that poll and please stop talking about it until you do.

Telling me that you know better than me what my poll is asking is not only absurd; it's also insulting.

[sean newboy]

I don't see him attacking anybody personally until you

Has the MBBL or the MBBL 2 ever thrown out a whacky new rule because it didn't work? I don't know the history of the MBBL 2 but I know the MBBL has yet to find a broken rule...anybody find that odd?

Your rite its not someone just something he is attacking. He was not arguing about the skills in question just their parentage. The point is the same, this isnt the first time he has made the 'your wrong because the mbbl and mbbl2 are the same thing and i dont like the mbbl2' argument.

Zombie the exp system still seems like a part of a basic concept, one possibility to be sure, but so far the only game based one so far proposed that i know of. I did not say i knew that better than u, i apologise if thats how it sounded. Personally i doubt im the only one basing my vote on the systems proposed so far and completely basing my vote on how the concepts are already being used . Most of us evaluate concepts on how they are already used/proposed to be used. Not to mention my vote is already out of date because im beginning to like the idea of the 20 spp/aging roll system.

[Dark Lord (retired)]

Which one is that?
Is it roll every 20 spp's?

[Zombie]

Think fundamentally. Stop thinking in terms of systems. Forget about all that stuff, and just ask yourself: "if i were to design the perfect aging alternative, what would i base it on?"

Then you'll understand what the poll was about.

From the responses i got in the poll, it seems like the vast majority of people understood the question perfectly.

[sean newboy]

I replyed to your comment at your poll, where it really belongs. Sorry to anyone disrupted by the off topic comments in this thread.