Blood Lust (...or, Stop For a Bite)

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:29 pm

Fanatic ceases to amaze me! Why they would change COFAB to this is completely unfathomable. As Galak said, COFAB worked great to keep the vamp team from becoming overpowered. I playtested a vamp team in MBBL and the only games I won were against 'flings and gobbos (remember, according to the fluff, vamps are really supposed to suck...sorry about the pun).

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:30 pm

Cerebus wrote:Wow...with this rule I would take all my Pro using vampires and reroll my bloodthirsts until I got a 1. Give them all Piling On or Mighty Blow and you would have a nice little moving strike force that could crush other teams that depend on you only getting one blitz against them a turn.

Hadn't given it too much thought but yup, works for me.

Blitz Anyone ??

ScottyBoneman · Post by **ScottyBoneman** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:35 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:
mrcoffee182 wrote:I think COFAB is the best option still. I don't see a problem with that at all.
Agreed. Both FUMBBL and the MBBL have a small pile now of very real playtest data to show that the COFAB Vampire teams are very balanced and that no other new OFAB idea is required because this one already works very well.

Galak

I understand what you are saying, but think there is a divide here. I think that some of it might be that the difference between ‘liked’ and ‘balanced’, and the rest being the boom-bust nature of the OFAB rules. I question if I had a nice juicy hobbit in right in front of me, why would I go running elsewhere?

My problem with the OFAB you advocate is the ‘gimmicky’ feel they give this team- I am not sure if that makes sense. Generally speaking, I would far rather have on-pitch negative traits on an overall balanced team then team being balanced in this method.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:44 pm

Torg wrote:Fanatic ceases to amaze me! Why they would change COFAB to this is completely unfathomable. As Galak said, COFAB worked great to keep the vamp team from becoming overpowered. I playtested a vamp team in MBBL and the only games I won were against 'flings and gobbos (remember, according to the fluff, vamps are really supposed to suck...sorry about the pun).

This is what I have a problem with, personally. Vamps should not be that bad, full stop. There is no point introducing any more "joke" teams, especially not when the new minis are so gorgeous. At the end of the day, if the team sucks, people won't want to use the team, the minis won't sell, and GW will decide that BB isn't worth supporting. I played a gobln team for 2-3years, I am fed up with pissing about with loosers!

Stuff the "vampires are terrible" angle.

I want a playable Vampire team! The negative trait is necessary on the vampire team IMO to make sure they aren't better than the standard teams, not to sure that they are worse.

Joemanji · Post by **Joemanji** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:46 pm

ScottyBoneman wrote:I think that some of it might be that the difference between ‘liked’ and ‘balanced’, and the rest being the boom-bust nature of the OFAB rules.

Exactly, I am not convinced that OFAB is balanced. Not even slightly.

mrcoffee182 · Post by **mrcoffee182** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:51 pm

I think it is balanced, but not in the same way as other teams I guess. You can't play vamps the same way as any other team, and they have different stregnths and weaknesses.

A little bit of luck helps a lot I'll admit, but you need to assume it won't go your way all the time, which makes playing vamps a lot of fun. You also have to remember that from he negatrait you get a Strength 4, Agility 4 player to start, thats pretty impressive.

ScottyBoneman · Post by **ScottyBoneman** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:56 pm

mrcoffee182 wrote:I think it is balanced, but not in the same way as other teams I guess. You can't play vamps the same way as any other team, and they have different stregnths and weaknesses.

A little bit of luck helps a lot I'll admit, but you need to assume it won't go your way all the time, which makes playing vamps a lot of fun. You also have to remember that from he negatrait you get a Strength 4, Agility 4 player to start, thats pretty impressive.

I am not even going into 'balanced' or not. Playtesting can handle that if given a chance- and COFAB has been given that and I know evidence suggests that it is ok.

It is only my view, but I find it less 'fun' to have a single roll when failed is straight off the pitch. (yes, coaching is a part of that too) It is also not fun at all to have a bunch of 'Pro' vampires throwing 2-3 blitzes a turn if you have to face that. This is clearly broken.

mrcoffee182 · Post by **mrcoffee182** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:00 pm

I've only once had a vamp run off the pitch due to OFAB. The rest of the time you just make him eat a thrall. That's the weakness, but the strength of the vamp makes it worth it.

They're not an easy team to play, but I've found them great fun.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:35 pm

Nazgit wrote:
ScottyBoneman wrote:I think that some of it might be that the difference between ‘liked’ and ‘balanced’, and the rest being the boom-bust nature of the OFAB rules.
Exactly, I am not convinced that OFAB is balanced. Not even slightly.

Here is the MBBL testing to date of COFAB (the C is for Cervidal's) which is the new OFAB in the 2003 Annual.
http://www.midgardbb.com/MBBL/NewOFAB_MBBLResults.htm

The combined record of the 3 teams so far is 12 wins - 12 losses -1 tie. A perfect balanced record across 3 teams. And the Crimson Jyhad are almost promised a slot in the playoffs this season of the MBBL (definitely NOT a joke team by a long shot). FUMBBL data shows pretty much the same thing by the way so far.

So yes Scotty I hear your point but I haven't seen another effect to balance six AG 4/ST 4 players. This is the first one that worked. Its not a flavor you like and that I understand, but it made the team balanced. First rule to ever do so. So for now I'll gladly take balance over flavor.

Galak

Skummy · Post by **Skummy** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:37 pm

mrcoffee182 wrote:I've only once had a vamp run off the pitch due to OFAB. The rest of the time you just make him eat a thrall. That's the weakness, but the strength of the vamp makes it worth it.

They're not an easy team to play, but I've found them great fun.

My vamps run off the field quite often. I guess I've been fortunate enough to have them fail several times when breakaway plays on the other side of the pitch have guaranteed a score. In such a case it is clearly better to have them run off the pitch.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 4:43 pm

My vampire team are won 3 drawn 2 lost 0 using cofab

i would have won the 2 draws as well but i went for a quick pass from vampire to vampires and i rolled 1 reroll 1 on the ofab roll and had to bite a thrall instead of scoring

its only really negative if you overload and rely on the vampires too much

you don't have to have loads of vampires on the pitch and you don't have to use all of them every turn either

i also started the team with 5 rerolls to counter the problem and will be getting the guys pro when i can

ScottyBoneman · Post by **ScottyBoneman** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 5:39 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:So yes Scotty I hear your point but I haven't seen another effect to balance six AG 4/ST 4 players. This is the first one that worked. Its not a flavor you like and that I understand, but it made the team balanced. First rule to ever do so. So for now I'll gladly take balance over flavor.

Galak

I would have no problems having the version you like in a league with me, but likely wouldn't run one. By the fact that crazy ideas like the uberBlitz OFAB is being put forward like this makes me think its not just me.

Don't get me wrong, if I had to support one or the other this one they are proposing is totally flawed.

I would love to playtest (and adjust accordingly)something along the lines of:

0-12 Thrall 40,000 6 3 3 7 None None General
0-4 Nostferatu 100,000 6 4 2 8 None Fangs, Regenerate, Blood Lust General, Strength
0-2 Vampyr 110,000 6 4 4 8 None Hypnotic Gaze, Regenerate, Blood Lust General, Agility, Strength

Blood Lust
After the player has declared his action roll a D6. On a 2+ the player may act normally. On a 1, however, the player is overcome with the desire for blood. The player losses (sic) his nominated action for that turn and must block the closest enemy player even if this consumes the Blitz action. The coach may choose which if several are equally close.

After throwing the block the player may not move any further other than to follow up, as he wants to try and drink his victim’s blood! If the player has the ball they will drop it and the team suffers a turnover.

Hypnotic Gaze
modified to be an action

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 5:51 pm

nothing wrong with the current version of the team

and its already been tested

ScottyBoneman · Post by **ScottyBoneman** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 5:57 pm

Grumbledook wrote:nothing wrong with the current version of the team

and its already been tested

Well apparently Fanatic would disagree.

Robotorz · Post by **Robotorz** » Thu Oct 16, 2003 6:27 pm

Attention GW Syndrome Alert!

Seriously: Pro would be even more helpful for these teams to fail the roll.