less Ogres (Goblin,Halfling&Orc Team), more Trolls

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:57 pm

First of all an Accurate Throw + Safe Landing with an AG1 Player without Reroll is everything else but easy.
Secondly at least my approach is far more creative than simply banning all Big Guys.
Thirdly the rule changes involved are minor to say the least.

In short why don't you come up with a better idea ?

Sputnik · Post by **Sputnik** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:14 pm

First of all an Accurate Throw + Safe Landing with an AG1 Player without Reroll is everything else but easy.
Secondly at least my approach is far more creative than simply banning all Big Guys.
Thirdly the rule changes involved are minor to say the least.

In short why don't you come up with a better idea ?

I didn't say it was easy an Accurate TTM + successful landing (hopefully not with a player having AG1

) was itself easy...

But if you want to earn a SPP, try this with the ball. You will be rewarded with a completion, a SPP and you don't even have to change the rules for it! If you do however not suceed, it's a turnover...which is IMO the crucial point! To throw a gobbo may 'only' lead to problems for the gobbo, but you can save the ball first and you don't cause a turnover. Thus, the troll can try each turn to get his SPP (yes, you still need to pass the really stupid check, you need a gobbo ect..). But you will get SPP easier and faster than gathering cas.

and it's free. Try this with the ball and you will see th result thereof...

ah, you can already imagine...

I didn't propose to get rid of big guys, but I clearly have a better idea of what to do with a troll on the field than to try to throw gobbos around for nothing...

Sputnik

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:22 pm

Toby wrote:In short why don't you come up with a better idea ?

If you would have read my posts, you would see that I actually had an idea.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:28 pm

narkotic wrote:
Toby wrote:In short why don't you come up with a better idea ?
If you would have read my posts, you would see that I actually had an idea.

i was aiming at sputnik, in fact your ST6 inspired me to think about "what would a troll be good for"

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:34 pm

Sputnik wrote: than to try to throw gobbos around for nothing...

Well, when the Goblin has the ball, he scores the Touchdown and the GOBLIN gets the Starplayer Points.
The Big Guy does not, because even if you could argue he was taking a Pass Action, nobody was CATCHING the ball.

And if you feel you need to fire a Goblin down the field every turn, go ahead and do it. I dont realy have a Problem with that.
I will just foul him, add that +1 to his Injury Roll and kill him thats all.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 2:36 pm

Even with pass, the Ogre will be favoured bc no hungry and AG2. Pass will let your Troll re-roll his 6+ roll for achieving an accurate TTM...

And why should the least agile big Guy (with the Treeman) get pass? just to encourage TTM, that won't fit. IMO the strenght increase or a strength skill suits better.

What a STR6 Troll is good for?
Bashing other big guys (for example Ogres)

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:17 pm

I must say i just realised the AG1 Troll & Treemen vs the AG2 Ogre as well. That kinda ruins the whole Idea unless you increase Treemen and Troll AG to 2 as well. Would that be unacceptable ?

However, the general idea was Trolls & Treemen = better @ TTM than Ogres...

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:23 pm

narkotic wrote:What a STR6 Troll is goo for?
Bashing other big guys (for example Ogres)

Well, while I regret that BG's are reduced to bashing only, that would be better than simply leaving Ogres superior to Trolls.

Post by **Thadrin** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 4:59 pm

Instead of mucking about with the rules, why not just say that Orc teams can't hire Ogres?

Solves the problem in a single simple action.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 6:25 pm

Toby wrote:I must say i just realised the AG1 Troll & Treemen vs the AG2 Ogre as well. That kinda ruins the whole Idea unless you increase Treemen and Troll AG to 2 as well. Would that be unacceptable ?

However, the general idea was Trolls & Treemen = better @ TTM than Ogres...

See Toby, this is your whole problem. You don't pay any attention and just throw thoughts and ideas out there without thinking about them first. Then, instead of seeing that your idea was flawed and changing it or discarding it altogether, you change another stat/rule/whatever. By the time we get 2 pages into your idea, you've changed 4 things in the rule book to make your original premise work instead of just realize that premise was flawed in the first place and had no merit.

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:52 pm

Situation: Ogre

> Troll; Ogre

> Treeman
Problem: Oger overused, Troll, Treeman underused.
Solution: Balancing tweaks;
Options: A. Upgrade Troll; B. Downgrade Ogre; C. Both

If it was up to you we would still wait for someone to invent the wheel.

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 11:01 pm

That's not true. I'll support any change that benefits the game. I've even come up with a few myself. I know that you might find this next statement hard to believe but I've even been wrong on a few of them. Stop shaking your head. It's true. Occasionally someone's arguement has won me over to there side or given me a new direction to go with my original thought. Crazy huh?

Toby · Post by **Toby** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 1:01 am

Good.

Now back to the Topic:

Big Guys are needed for 2 things.
A. Hit People
B. Throw People.

whats wrong with making somme better at hitting, and some better at throwing.
oh wait i forgot - just ban them

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:25 am

you missed out C)stand there and get hit, thats what i use mine for, sod rolling and losing his tackle zone or getting double skulls or something that i can't reroll

Dark Lord (retired) · Post by **Dark Lord (retired)** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 8:20 pm

Yeah really, my big guys tend to be chumps I put on the pitch because the other guy has one and I don't want to lose the battle on the line of scrimmage.

I'd like to see the whole idea taken back to formula.

"Back to formula?! GRRRRR

"