A new idea on the Khemri

[Dangerous Dave]

Of course no Mighty Blow and all AG2 solve all the balance issues..... they become a very poor team.


The Mummies will take ages to advance - no Mighty Blow.

All AV 7 (bar theMummies and blitzers) mean the team is very prone to being beat up.

They can't dodge

They can't pass or catch

The Mummies can't move enough to exploit Foul Appearance

All bar 2 players have less than average movement

To protect the ball you need to keep several players around the ball just to try and pick it up - this means less players in the fight.


Compare all this to Dwarves....


4 players have ag 3

similar movement

AV 9 except for 2 players

All players bar 2 have Block

etc etc...


Doesn't look balanced to me.


The only way an AG 2 team can win is if it is good at blocking. I don't believe that the current proposed line up is that good at blocking....



Dave

[Mestari]

they become a very poor team.

No! A challenging team, a challenging team! We had a coach who had mediocre success with an all-skeleton team that thus didn't even have mummies or positional skeletons. It just takes a different approach. Why should the Khemri be an easy team to coach? With AG2 they're challenging, which is a good thing - not every new team needs to be able to seriously go for the trophy no matter who's coaching them. Quite the contrary.

[plasmoid]

I love mummies with FApr instead of mighty blow.
Sits fine with me
(Our playtest here confirms Daves feeling that taking away all AG3 is a bit over the top though).

Martin

[Dangerous Dave]

Well Martin sums up my point, You can't have an AG 2 team which struggles to hurt the oppo and have the team remain competitive. I can live with taking MB off the Mummies (for F Apr) but then feel that having AG 2 max across the board means the team is very difficult to play. In fact it forces you to play the KILL KILL game since there is simply no other way to win.

Personally I wanted the Khemri to be an all AG2 team but retain its hitting power - which since they are av 7 does make them very vulnerable despite the 4 Mummies. The alternative is some ag 3 players and then they start looking closer to other teams and therefore less attractive as a new team.

That said, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I really don't believe that there should be a skeleton starting player with the following skills:-

Sure Hands, Pass

Since when did Undead (bones and bandages variety) ever have any compunction to play air ball?


Dave

[Sushé Wakka]

Am I the only one who thinks that the easier way to fix the Khemri team was by reducing the number of mummies down to 0-2 and the increasing the number of Tomb Guardians (I don't like the sound of "Blitz-ra") to 0-4? No more pronlem about 4 mummies crushing your team.
Also, it fits the Khemrian fluff rather nicely. After all, only the Tomb Kings and the Tomb Princes were mummified, and do you thnk that four Kings are willing to play together? I think they'd rather mash each other and then take over the defeated King's Realm. Really, I think it's easy if you try.
(typos edited)

[ljm]

Our league uses the same rules for the Khemri as Galak (AG2, fa instead of mb) and I think they work pretty well. We started out with the BBMag rules and many of us thought that one of the three Khemri teams in the league was clearly becoming overpowered. (Of the other two one had only a couple of games under its belt and the second was run by a coach who always loses despite the team he's got.)

Now, at TR 209, the top team has four truly frightening mummies (1*block+frenzy, 2*block+po, 1*ST6) and has a hard time finding opponents. The team has got two AG3 players (a thrower and a blitzer) but still has to play very carefully in order to score even a single touchdown. After switching to the current roster, the team has had a .375 record. They seem to inflict an average of 3-4 cas per match.

And, IMHO, there should be skeleton blitzers, throwers and linemen on the roster...

ljm

[Mestari]

Since when did Undead (bones and bandages variety) ever have any compunction to play air ball?

I was a strong supporter of giving them runners instead, but I really can't remember if I got much support for that...

But anyhow, I'm confident that the all-AG2 team is good. I've seen skeleton teams before and all it takes is a bit different approach. Granted, they won't be amongst the strongest trophy contenders, but they got cheap linefodder and lots of regenerate. And four ST5 players without negative traits.

[GalakStarscraper]

still don't like the idea of mummies with foul appearance

Since Grumble took the time to post this comment 3 times in this thread I just wanted to post something from the history files:

1st edition: Mummies had Foul Appearance and no Mighty Blow
2nd edition: Mummies had Foul Appearance and Mighty Blow
3rd edition: Mummies have Mighty Blow

So 3rd edition was the first time the Mummies didn't have FA. So its not like its a "new" idea its actually returning the Mummy to its 1st edition roots.

Galak

[Grumbledook]

There was no khemri in 1st edition either was there?

Fair enough its in there, but by the same logic ogre teams are meant to be uncoordinated, so why not have big guy on all the ogre players. Can't use one logic for one arguement and then igore it for another.

I can accept them having foul appearence but still doesn't mean i think it fits right ;]

[Darkson]

Am I the only one who thinks that the easier way to fix the Khemri team was by reducing the number of mummies down to 0-2 and the increasing the number of Tomb Guardians (I don't like the sound of "Blitz-ra") to 0-4? No more pronlem about 4 mummies crushing your team.
Also, it fits the Khemrian fluff rather nicely. After all, only the Tomb Kings and the Tomb Princes were mummified, and do you thnk that four Kings are willing to play together? I think they'd rather mash each other and then take over the defeated King's Realm. Really, I think it's easy if you try.
(typos edited)

Now that's a senisble idea that I would agree to, it'll never be "official" cos they wouldn't sell enough Mummy figure

(Do I sound cynical yet?)

[Sushé Wakka]

(Do I sound cynical yet?)

No, not yet. Try harder, we know you can make it.

[Jiriki13]

I can't really comment on how effective or ineffective this team is because I haven't played them yet and we don't have one in our league yet. I was just wondering how this team can be overpowered as it is now? I look at them and see only 4 average ball handlers on the team with all low AV (except mummies) and then the 4 mummies. Now I know what mummies can do and I realize what 4 could do, but just looking at this team with only 4 real ball handlers can they be that overpowered or unbalanced? I know you could use the skeletons with AG2 to handle the ball too, but I wouldn't consider them even decent ball handlers. So, if by chance I end up taking out all the AG3 players this team is struggling to handle the ball as is. You don't even have to take them out, just tie them up. I personally was thinking that this team was the weakest, in terms of winning potential, of any of the undead teams. I'm talking about the original undead team and the necromantic team along with this one. The original undead team had 4 ghouls and 4 wights for ball handling and the necro team has the same with a werewolf added (which I think has no place on that team by the way). Both these teams have 2 brusiers to set on the line to hurt people along with the zombies, etc. I just can't see how the Khemri team can even compare when it comes to actually being able to win the game.

Dave

[Icedman]

Am I the only one who thinks that the easier way to fix the Khemri team was by reducing the number of mummies down to 0-2 and the increasing the number of Tomb Guardians (I don't like the sound of "Blitz-ra") to 0-4? No more problem about 4 mummies crushing your team.
Also, it fits the Khemrian fluff rather nicely. After all, only the Tomb Kings and the Tomb Princes were mummified, and do you thnk that four Kings are willing to play together? I think they'd rather mash each other and then take over the defeated King's Realm. Really, I think it's easy if you try.

Fantastic idea mate! Its right up there with the idea I saw some time back on bloodbowl.com where someone was complaining that Mummies were BGs, but didn't have a negatrait. Someone else jumped on with the idea of giving them the Big Guy trait. All of a sudden, Mummies without re-rolls (and if they're anything like the Mummies in my league..... ).

I remember looking at the last 2 or 3 Khemri teams that have been offerred, and thinking to myself why. Why do they need 4 Mummies on that roster? The only thing I could think of was that the Mummies would either have to be altered in some way, or there would have to be less Mummies, period.

Jiriki, I can see where you're coming from with your post; its the same thing that makes me curious as to whether or not I can make the Chaos Dwarfs work as my next team (6 CDs, 2 Bulls and a Troll leaves only 2 AG3 players to move the ball). The reason I think its a little overdone? The fact that it has 4 ST5 players with Mty Blow (obviously, I'm talking about the BB Mag version here).

That sort of power up front lends itself to the hitting game, moreso than almost any other team in the game. A coach could relatively easily create a sideline wedge of ST5 players, behind which sits the ball carrier. With the cheap, expendable linemen running interference along the outer edges of the wedge, and maybe a potential receiver along with the interference, it'd be a really hard (depending on skill selection, almost impossible) drive to stop. At least with Chaos/Orcs/Lizzies, the walls are only ST4 (one assist, and a block/blitz, 1 die).

[Jiriki13]

Am I the only one who thinks that the easier way to fix the Khemri team was by reducing the number of mummies down to 0-2 and the increasing the number of Tomb Guardians (I don't like the sound of "Blitz-ra") to 0-4? No more problem about 4 mummies crushing your team.
Also, it fits the Khemrian fluff rather nicely. After all, only the Tomb Kings and the Tomb Princes were mummified, and do you thnk that four Kings are willing to play together? I think they'd rather mash each other and then take over the defeated King's Realm. Really, I think it's easy if you try.

Fantastic idea mate! Its right up there with the idea I saw some time back on bloodbowl.com where someone was complaining that Mummies were BGs, but didn't have a negatrait. Someone else jumped on with the idea of giving them the Big Guy trait. All of a sudden, Mummies without re-rolls (and if they're anything like the Mummies in my league..... ).

I remember looking at the last 2 or 3 Khemri teams that have been offerred, and thinking to myself why. Why do they need 4 Mummies on that roster? The only thing I could think of was that the Mummies would either have to be altered in some way, or there would have to be less Mummies, period.

Jiriki, I can see where you're coming from with your post; its the same thing that makes me curious as to whether or not I can make the Chaos Dwarfs work as my next team (6 CDs, 2 Bulls and a Troll leaves only 2 AG3 players to move the ball). The reason I think its a little overdone? The fact that it has 4 ST5 players with Mty Blow (obviously, I'm talking about the BB Mag version here).

That sort of power up front lends itself to the hitting game, moreso than almost any other team in the game. A coach could relatively easily create a sideline wedge of ST5 players, behind which sits the ball carrier. With the cheap, expendable linemen running interference along the outer edges of the wedge, and maybe a potential receiver along with the interference, it'd be a really hard (depending on skill selection, almost impossible) drive to stop. At least with Chaos/Orcs/Lizzies, the walls are only ST4 (one assist, and a block/blitz, 1 die).

I still don't see that strategy being very effective against even a decent coach. As slow as the this team is if they are slowed down even more by the opposing team, then they are pretty much stuck. They can't break from the cage/wedge and run around the opposing team, because they just aren't fast enough to do that. I guess I'll just have to playtest this team myself.

[Jiriki13]

Well, like I said in a previous post I haven't played this team yet and don't see how they could be overpowered/unbalanced with only 4 ball handlers on the field. I have been thinking about this though and if this team is unbalanced the way it was presented in the BBmag maybe there should be a different approach taken to fix it. Has anybody thought of or suggested decreasing the mummy ST to 4 and bumbing their MV up to 4 and then changing their skills. This could also allow the team to add a big guy like the Ushabti from WHFB. I was thinking up something like this for the team. This is just a quick thought so any suggestions are welcome and encouraged.
0-12 30k skeletons 5 3 2 7 regen GN
0-2 80k skeleton throwers 5 3 3 7 sure hands, NoS, regen GN,PS
0-4 90k tomb guard 6 3 3 8 block, regen GN,ST
0-4 110k mummy 4 4 1 9 foul appearance, stand firm, regen GN,ST
or
0-4 100k mummy 4 4 1 9 mighty blow, break tackle, regen GN,ST

BIG GUY: 130k Ushabti 4 5 1 9 mighty blow, stand firm, thick skull, regen, really stupid

I like either mummy set and I suppose you could also work any combo of those skills, or others too, into the mummy. If foul appearance and stand firm are too powerful you could always switch one with one of the others. Maybe foul appearance and break tackle or mighty blow and stand firm or any combo of those. I would probably limit them to two skills/traits along with regen though. I just thought of this after reading through the posts here and didn't notice anything being said of dropping the mummies to ST4 and adding a big guy to the team to represent the Ushabti in WHFB. Just a though and let me know what you think.

Dave