40K Blood Bowl

[spubbbba]

I have to say, this is, and imo always has been, one of the lamest arguements against a 40K-sports game.

Maybe it's just me, but I find most of the local 40K gamers to be much more hardcore with respect to a serious interpretation of the universe. Not necessarily a "by the books" interpretation, but the whole "life is war." thing really seems to permeate the game.

The realm of fantasy, for whatever reason, has always seemed to have a comic touch to it for me. So in many ways, I think it's a more natural transfer.

Hey, I can see my way around it, but I am wondering if a "light hearted" interpretation might be taboo for most 40K players? Just musing here, I'm glad to hear that you think it's not a legit problem!

Well the 40K players must be more recent converts, probably aged 16-21. It seems to be a phase gamers go through in the mid teens early 20's that 40K becomes by far the most popular game, younger gamers and old time vets are far more likely to play a variety of games and enjoy all 3 core games and specialist ones.

Those of us who played since the rouge trader days will well remember the great comedy potential of Orks and Squats. Sadly this was lost in the change from 2nd to 3rd (along with Squats) but the newest Ork codex did bring it back a little.

On topic i think the best way to do 40K BB would be just to use 40K models to represent the current teams. You might need to adapt a few such as making Chaos have an ogre and marauders to represent marines both loyal and chaotic.

Some armies are tricky though.

Maybe
tau/kroot as skaven
nids as lizzies
Vampires as blood angels
Space wolves as norse
Undead/khemri/necros as necrons

[Jural]

Well, I want to be really clear- My local 40k community is not a bunch of pathetic teenagers going through some dorky phase. It's a bunch of pathetic middle aged adults who's wives and chlidren wish they were going through some dorky phase The fact that I know of this community and their attitudes has a number of implications for my own age, level of patheticness, and dorkhood. Let's move on before I get to self-introspection please.

The gamers don't actually take the games seriously! They have fun when playing (most of them.) But the prevailing attitude seems to be that we are having fun up here, but these "serious armies" are doing "serious things" down there. The mythology of the Imperium really seems to permeate people's views of their armies, and it has lead to 40k locally having a much larger following than any other equivalent (Although Pokemon and D&D also seem to be quite popular.)

[Jural]

So I think there are two main ideas in my head (thank you everyone!)

1) Port over existing teams and make small mods (if need be.)

2) Design new teams which better capture the 40k feel.

Honestly, 1) is the safest, easiest, and with minor tweaks (to the kick-off table and starting skills especially) the most effective.

But 2 is a little bit like my white whale at the moment... so what do people think about the idea of assigning each model a model count?

So a Daemon Prince could be a 5 5 3 9 Wings (VLL, Leap), Mighty Blow but count as 3 models on the pitch? Or a Chaos Space Marine could be a 6 4 4 9 Block, Pro, but count for 2 models? Or an Imperial Guardsmen could be a 6 3 3 8 and count for 1?

[Wanchor]

My vote is for method 2, as I've already started down that path, heh, and I just don't see the point in not experimenting when the idea is to change things up.

As it concerns model count, I thought about the same thing when deliberating the Space Marine team and came to the conclusion that numbers are their own strength. A fresh space marine team would probably have only seven players and one re-roll, or six players and three re-rolls, which presents some problems right off the bat for being outnumbered. Counting each space marine as two models would further reduce their squad to five players...yeesh.

Whether this be an acceptable proposition or not, I think it would be wise to leave the more drastic changes to later once more of base has been established, specifically teams and any changes to the normal rules that are required, keeping the same team structure as in the original, with cost and a hard limit as to number, in order to keep balance.

[Frozen Yakman]

You'd probably want to reflavor/rework Mutations as Technology if you do base your Space Marine team off the chaos roster.

EDIT: Also maybe consider a laser tag (ranged block limited to stun max) 1/turn action to reflect that 40K is more shooty than FB.

[Ullis]

My suggestion is that you concentrate on the fact that many of the skills are skills related to actual skills in the very sport of Blood Bowl. Hence being mean and tough doesn't translate to that model having to have Block. Look at Chaos warriors, they start with ST4 due to being big and bad but they don't have Block. Maybe their Weapon skill or Close Combat skill (haven't seen a rule book in some time) in WHFB is high but that doesn't translate to being able to block someone. Same way as being experienced (fluff wise) doesn't mean that the model should have Pro.

Actually, those two skills are good examples of what I mean. Block means having skill in actually blocking players and bringing them down, not punching them straight in the face.

Pro is an even better example. I see it as just having played the game so long that the player just has gotten better at all aspects of the game. He is still not that good at, say, catching, but he's just done it so much more in practices and at games that he's better at it than most players. An imperial guardsman veteran knows his way around a battlefield. He's seen enough to know that when you hear a whistling sound you hit the ground and he knows to get his shovel out the minute there's a lull in combat. He still doesn't know his way around the Blood bowl pitch and he's certainly not better at passing.

Overall, I see playing around with stats and skill access as a better way of describing the positionals than trying to differentiate them with too many starting skills and ones that seem odd.

What this aims at too is that I'd look at keeping the rosters light in terms of positionals (it makes remembering stats etc. easier too) and close to the original ones (as they've actually been playtested and they are quite balanced). Maybe the tyranids wouldn't bring Genestealers as they can't pick up the ball and can't really grasp the rules. I'd look to make the teams and game 40k'ish by introducing new skills, specific rules and inducements for some of the teams and maybe making new weather tables and kick off tables for different kinds of worlds etc. Maybe the Guardsman team could clear the KO box by making an example (badly hurting a player) of one of the KO'd players.

[Wanchor]

I actually don't see that being able to block someone doesn't translate to a punch in the face, elbow to the throat or kick in the groin, as demonstrated in rulebook.

I stand by my selection of Pro for the veteran position because, let's be honest, it only really has two uses since the occasional pass is covered by the officer - blocking and dodging, and then, still mostly blocking, probably with an assist. I don't imagine that these guys would have become veterans without figuring out how to get a quick edge up close or learning to keep their heads down when trouble crops up. Giving them Block or Dodge would be overkill and far too effective, but Pro is a nice addition, sometimes working out and sometimes not, and, moreover, most coaches rarely give their players the skill simply because they see it as less effective than other skills more suited to the way the player is used.

Did you mean to say Gaunts when you said Genestealers?

I agree that a 40k version would definitely need at least some changes to skills, extra rules or modifications to the way things operate normally, but it is my opinion that working those out would be better left to a period after some initial playtesting just to see how any new rosters work.

[scooterinab]

Well, it looks like I get to start my posting on this forum as a social pariah...

Right now, I'm playing with an idea for 40k Blood Bowl. This is mostly something to keep myself and a few friends amused while we study and work in Japan. I'm big into modelling anyways, so if I never again get to use, say, a Dark Eldar Blood Bowl team, I'm ok with that. Here's what I'm throwing around so far.

I'm going with the cautionary train of thought that already been presented by adapting 40k races to existing Blood Bowl teams, rather than make up new rules. There is a bit of tweaking and skill substitution taking place, but it is working well for most races. Space Marines are also a problem, but we'll see where that goes. I was also thinking of basing it off Chaos teams, and having the team made of mostly Scouts instead of hulking Marines.

Fluffwise, the premise is very flimsy, but it's kind of fun. Basically, it is a Hive World contest that is being used on a larger scale. I figure the fluff for Blood Bowl is so tongue in cheek anyways that a little suspension of disbelieve isn't isn't that bad.

Again, the whole thing is very casual and not meant to be serious in any way. It's just something to do to pass the time. Because of the light conversion, and the spirit of Blood Bowl, I have still left out wargear. A few items might pop up as "Special Weapons", but it's not even being looked at yet.

All of that said, I agree with a lot of the hesitation I'm hearing about a 40k version of Blood Bowl. It's just like Squats (bless their tiny hearts). Just because one timeline has something doesn't mean the other timeline has to as well. We don't need special rules to play Blood Bowl with 40k models, because Blood Bowl already stands on it's own. 40k doesn't fit into Blood Bowl well (the whole Grim Dark thing). We are getting past that slightly by just wanting to screw around and have fun (in fact, at least one team I've looked at so far will basically be using different models with existing rules).

On a side note, if anyone wants to see what we come up with, PM me in a month or two to see what heretical monster we've come up with.

[voyagers_uk]

we love social pariahs here, keep posting your thoughts.

we may just add to them.

[Thadrin]

I'm sure someone did some rules that were pretty much BB, but more Basketball inspired, played by Necromunda gangs. More sort of Speedball-ish.

Could be a cool idea to ressurect for the LRB6. I think using a 7s pitch would be a bit more interesting. Say 5 a side, you could use the basic BB stats as follows:

Goliaths - Orcs
Orlocks - Human
Delaque - Dark Elf
Van Saar - High Elf
Escher - Amazon
Cawdor - Norse (?)

[scooterinab]

I'm sure someone did some rules that were pretty much BB, but more Basketball inspired, played by Necromunda gangs. More sort of Speedball-ish....

I guess that could work. Those teams do catch some of the feel of the various gang types, at least on the surface.

I know that there is a Necromunda scenario kicking around for a Blood Bowl like contest (sort of where I got the idea for my 40k attempts background). But that is from a Necromunda perspective. That's fine for me, but mot for all.

[mattgslater]

I actually don't see that being able to block someone doesn't translate to a punch in the face, elbow to the throat or kick in the groin, as demonstrated in rulebook.

Uh... as a product of the California high school system, I have empirical counter-evidence. Football blocking is its own skill. Real fighting is a very different animal: you can do more, you have to look out for more, you don't know in advance where your buddy is going to be.

The Chaos Warrior in BB is ST4/AG3, meaning he can carry the ball and is easy to skill but hard to kill, meaning that the average CW gets Block long before the average big guy or BOB-type. So while a CW looks on paper like a glorified BOB, the model is actually the single most dangerous blocker/blitzer in the entire game (well, him and the Bull Centaur, whose high speed gives him similar development options). Very few 40k-types should start with Block: why on ... well, wherever ... would a Space Marine learn how to play football? Not that you could balance SMs for BB anyway.

[mattgslater]

Necromunda-themed teams would be really cool. I don't know that you'd need templates as such... but if you wanted to make them there are two ways to approach it. You could build highly distinctive team races, or you could build very similar races with small early differences and very distinctive access themes.

I'd kind of dig "close to the ground" teams where most guys have more-or-less the same profile, give-or-take. I might post an attempt in a different thread.