Cheerleaders and Assistant Coaches as inducement

thechosengobbo · Post by **thechosengobbo** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:16 pm

On the other hand, with games like I just had, with 4 kick offs, and 4 rolls of 'Brilliant Coaching' They'd be worth their weight in gold.

If only either of us had bought them (we were too busy saving to replace key players)

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:19 pm

Carnis wrote:Has any1 done the statistics for these guys? They are horrible. Something like 3 games out of 4 you are better off having a reroll instead.. We had a mathematician prove it, they value significantly less than a reroll on an average 2-1 grind. In a 5-4 score game they *might* make a difference. That's why it could be better to just remove them from coaching staff & have them as inducement only..

If coaches don't think they're worth it, then they don't buy them, simple as that.
I find I get a lot more use out of them (maybe because I roll average dice, so 6 & 8 come up a lot of the KO table). Over the last season (with gobbos, and 2 of each, 12 games) I got about 1.5 a game - certainly a good investment for 40K.

The other thing you're missing is reroll denial for the opponent. Having the reroll isn't always that important - stopping your opponent from getting it is.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Tue Apr 28, 2009 2:51 pm

Darkson wrote:The other thing you're missing is reroll denial for the opponent. Having the reroll isn't always that important - stopping your opponent from getting it is.

QFT

necromancer · Post by **necromancer** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 8:03 am

In CLBBBL we added:

0-3 Sponsorships. 100K Gives a +1D3 when rolling for winnings.
0-1 Inspiration. 100K The team is allowed 1 extra random MVP after the game.

We also used to have a watch and learn. Meaning you could take out 1 player for the game and give him a MVP.

AC and CL
It seems to me people only take them in tournaments?

We added +1 AC and CL for a full painted team at the Danish Championships.

gandresch · Post by **gandresch** » Fri May 01, 2009 11:47 am

Hi,

i talked to a friend yesterday and he told me, that the leave out of this inducement originally was exactly meant the way it is now - no inducement below 50k. You just shouldn't optimize your inducements up to 10k but get nearly as good as your opo or perhaps at least some better than before

So the cheerleader and ac would make sense, if you spend 50k for your cl or ac and then get 5 of your choice for the game.

The other inducements, like 1d3 extra winnings or an extra mvp are just kind of powergaming, sorry to say that. A team earns more money, if they win, but 1d3 is bit hard. As a loser you can still win 100k this way in one game. The extra mvp isn't worth 100k. Buy a reroll instead, do some nice blocks or some passes instead of the mvp. The mvp should always be one player per team and not a hord of bribing reserve players.

But what i would consider, and what usually would make sense in my eyes, is that you invest 100k of your inducement in fans and get 1d3 or 1d6 (-1?) extra fans/ff for this game. This deals with your extra money.

Greetz,
gan

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Fri May 01, 2009 12:19 pm

the idea for extra money is so team that get beaten up badly or new teams entering an existing league can catch up quicker if they so choose

100k for an extra potentially 30k will either be at the expense of being more competitive in the match, or cause the gap between the two teams is massive and they get LOADs of inducement money

I don't really see that as a powergaming problem, nothing powergaming about losing a game ;]

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun May 03, 2009 3:59 pm

gandresch wrote:The other inducements, like 1d3 extra winnings or an extra mvp are just kind of powergaming, sorry to say that. A team earns more money, if they win, but 1d3 is bit hard. As a loser you can still win 100k this way in one game. The extra mvp isn't worth 100k. Buy a reroll instead, do some nice blocks or some passes instead of the mvp. The mvp should always be one player per team and not a hord of bribing reserve players.

See, I think context makes a big difference here. In a league where a team that gets clobbered really bad doesn't have time to recover, a mechanism to give underdog teams a push sounds like quite a good idea.

I see how the cash bit would be potentially problematic, as it would encourage hoarding. I also see an easy fix. An inducement for cash could replace the team's existing treasury at end of match (before winnings, of course). So no hoarding would be allowed. In that case, it should be a fair chunk of cash (like 1d6), so it should be a really expensive inducement (like 200). Hmmm... needs work. What's a Blood-Bowly way to get an average of about 2.5 and a range that goes higher than 3? I don't like the idea of d8/2, as that doesn't appear anywhere else. D3+1 is wonky.

Alternative: buy a post-match RR for 100k; use it to re-roll Winnings or randomize a new MVP. Or make it 50k and dedicate it to one roll or the other in advance? That one too needs work, but it wouldn't be hard to balance with a little trial-and-error.

Another alternative: allow a coach to pay triple a JM's inducement price and add him to the roster at the start of the match. JMs only; this doesn't work for Mercs or Stars.

Man, this game really needs an alternative set of inducements for fixed schedule leagues. This inducement format would be great in an open season, but my losing coaches bitch that they can't catch up, and my winning coaches are tired of playing football against a hardware store.

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sun May 03, 2009 4:32 pm

lower coaches can catch up, it depends on the inducements they take

having 2 extra apoths for example will really slow down damage that more valuable teams can dish out

though obviously this is at the expense of perhaps being more competitive as you are less likely to afford a wizard/reroll/merc etc

SillySod · Post by **SillySod** » Sun May 03, 2009 4:52 pm

This sounds like a good idea. Cheerleaders/coaches induced for 20k would be pretty fair. That makes them 100% more expensive than their permanent counterparts which is waay above the target 33% as well as ensuring that its more cost effective to buy cheerleaders than induce them.

To be honest I would never bother parting money for them in all but exceptional circumstances circumstances. Unless I had halflings obviously.

mattgslater · Post by **mattgslater** » Sun May 03, 2009 5:12 pm

Grumbledook wrote:lower coaches can catch up, it depends on the inducements they take

Again, it's heavily format-dependent. In a perpetual league, you're absolutely correct, and no major fixes are warranted. In a short-medium fixed-format league (10-16 games), while a disastrous game 1 doesn't guarantee a disastrous season, it does force the team into persistent damage-control mode.

We have this pro elf team in our league that started with three Catchers, and had two of them die in the first game. To top it off, his first two winnings rolls were 1, and he has yet to play with FAME. A quarter of the way through the season, this poor team is always running a star and two or three JMs, and has a heck of a time building SPPs. The one Catcher gets neutralized very easily, and as a result, they don't have a good sudden TD mechanism and have a hard time capitalizing on cage-breaks. Hiring a scoring star like Jordell is counterproductive, and doesn't really take the pressure off anyway as everybody knows he wants to score with rostered players. The on-roster linos tend to go out pretty quickly, which gets in the way of the Comp rotation and impedes development. The coach is a real trooper, but he's announced his intent to play some other team next season as he can't see his way out. He finally has an Apothecary, but he's broke again, and since his FF is 0 and he's got a hard stretch coming up, he's likely to be at the halfway point before he can hire his second Catcher.