Balanced Vampire Team

Moonsong · Post by **Moonsong** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 12:35 pm

Yes, but what I meant was that, compared to a human lineman, they should be a little on the "anemic" side. Difficult cohagulation, poor balance, etc.

Moonsong

Relborn · Post by **Relborn** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 1:12 pm

Without the unbalancing Ag4 theese Vampires look very good to me.

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 3:08 pm

Need to work on the costs though AV7 is 40k therefore its a very cheap filler and will enable you to start with 3 Vampires.

You could even go

2 vamps ( 260k )
2 Ghouls (140k)
8 Thrall ( 320 K)
3 re-rolls at 70k ( 210 )
FF 7 ( 70k )

Or even take out a Ghoul and a thrall drop FF by 2 and get a third vamp.

That could make a very strong starting line-up

McDeth · Post by **McDeth** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 3:09 pm

Also is this side allowed an Apothecary???

Moonsong · Post by **Moonsong** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 3:23 pm

There were two versions of the team: one with the Thralls at 40k and no apothecary, the other with them at 50k and the apothecary, but only for the thralls, the vampires and ghouls, being undead, couldn't be healed by normal means.

Moonsong

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 4:23 pm

Having played undead for years and used count luthor a fair amount having st4 and ag4 makes them highly powerful. One solution is to have 2 different kinds of vampires, a couple with st4 ag3 and vica versa, this still does of course mean u have a team that has st4 and ag in the team sheet.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 4:52 pm

Actually, the MBBL's current Vampire teams look at lot like Martin's leagues (ie no OFAB, 4 vamps on the team) ... however as you will note 3 of the 5 teams have AG 3 vamps. The two teams with ST 4/AG 4 vamps either have only lineman type players for the rest of the team or have only 2 vampires allowed.

Chet helped design the ones we use and most of them have gotten some decent playtesting under their belts.

For the curious:
http://www.midgardbb.com/GWTeams/Vampire.html

Galak

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Sep 30, 2002 4:53 pm

Oh and the teams that have Thralls on the MBBL2 variants have AV 8/50k/no apothecary allowed as the stats.

Galak

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Oct 07, 2002 8:09 pm

Hi all,
I was pretty surprised by the feedback.
If a basis of 230 playtest games doesn't count for anything - then I don't know what does.

I was glad to see that Galak uses a pretty similar vampire team.
I take that as further evidence that the team is not unbalanced.

I'd like to respond to a few things:
1) It has been stated that no team with ST4 AG4 players can be balanced.

Oh come on.
How about a team with just 2 of these?
How about a team with a few of these, and ST2 AG2 players only for support?
To me, it is obvious that the "balance" depends entirely on what you combine said ST4 AG4 players with.

For example, notice how the vamps do not have a big guy ally. Once they've acquired their block+dodge, perhaps there will be big guys out there with tackle and piling on.

2) It was asked why their rerolls cost only 60K.

2 reasons: I percieve vampires to be pretty well organized, and 60K was what Jervis suggested.

3) It was asked how I arrived at the 140K price.
I took a chaos warrior at 100K: 5439 - 100K
Then I exchanged +1MA for -1AV: 6438 - 100K
Then I improved the AG for 20K: 6448 - 120K
I estimated regeneration + gaze to be another 20K. That _may_ be a bit low, but seeing that BB2K1 has made the gaze less powerful, and that regeneration also means the loss of a team apothecary, I figure it adds up fine.

4) It was suggested that the vamps are too powerful.
For some reason it was then suggested to use 6337 human thralls as fillers.

Why?
Sure, Jervis old vampire team had human thralls, but in the army-list it's undeads only.
But army list or not, The real issue is this:
If the vampires are percieved as so good that they need to be weakened, then why would anyone want to improve their linemen?

One of the things that makes this team balanced is the fact that only the vampires and the ghouls can be relied on when it comes to handling the ball. This gives the opposing coach less players to focus on when trying to determine what the vampires are up to.

So, I remain adamant: The team is balanced - it has proved itself so.
But it is not among the weakest teams.
If you think that all new teams should be that, then removing 2 ghouls should do the trick.

Martin

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 7:30 pm

What I don't understand is why people want several vampires on the same team. This means you either have to give them low stats, thus taking away the feeling of vampires, or invent disturbing rules with drawbacks.

I'd really like to see a team with a really dominating Vampire Lord with a big bunch of - in his views - useless henchmen. I picture him being this really arrogant star that more often than not gets his plays ridiculed by the hunchback thralls.

0-15 Thralls 40k 6 3 2 8 (G)
0-1 Vampire Lord 180K 6 5 4 9 Reg, Hyp Gaze, Block, Dodge (G, S, AG)
Re-rolls 70.000
No apothecary
No big guys

I really like the idea of them being hunchbacks with AG 2. In time, the team will develop a few thralls which are more useful.

The vampire lord (read: Count Luthor) will soon get some more skills. Seeing him trying to pass the ball to his thralls, to get them some SPP:s, isn't really in line with the fluff - but it could be quite hilarious...

No apoc is for the feel of it. A vampire lord would never bother with an apothecary for these thralls. And the team will have plenty of money anyway considering the limited supply of position players :)

I figure this would be a fun and challenging team to field - and to have as an opponent too.

Micke

christer · Post by **christer** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:09 pm

0-1 Vampire Lord 180K 6 5 4 9 Reg, Hyp Gaze, Block, Dodge (G, S, AG)

Err? You must be joking?

-- Christer

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 9:31 pm

>Err? You must be joking?

It's simply Count Luthor. Though you might want to skip Blodge, he'll get to these skills soon enough anyway.

Micke

christer · Post by **christer** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:02 pm

It's simply Count Luthor

There's a reason a player like that can't gain SPPs. Not to mention LRB took out the possibility to permanently hire stars, and alot of leagues ban stars even for freebooting for the same reason: They are considered inbalanced and wwaaayyyy too powerful.

-- Christer

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:06 pm

I would have to agree. Having a Count Luthor character that can earn SPPs would be WAAAAY too much.

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Sun Oct 13, 2002 10:32 pm

Sure, let off Blodge and price him 200k. You could raise the RR:s to 80k too (Thralls are stupid and vampires impatient).

And there probably ought to be something like on the roster:

0-2 Thrall thrower 60k 6 3 3 8 Sure hands (G, P)

...which are not so much throwers as the beginning of a decent thrower. I'm thinking a "right hand" or two for the lord.

Micke