Rant-New Attibribute

[Redfang]

OK, here I go, just trying to help out here...

Going off topic here but this is such a perfect example I can't resist.

Where did I get "worked up"?

He didn't. You didn't get worked up at all (well done ) and he didn't say you did. His comment was just to prevent you (or anybody else) from getting worked up. But as there wasn't any indication at all of anybody getting even remotely worked up, that comment was completely unnecessary and I agree with you that this suggested that you were getting worked up and so was really not a good idea.

Where am I "starting a flame war"?

Again, you didn't; same applies here as above.

Do you think I sit slamming my keyboard foaming at the mouth everytime I type a response?

I'd really like to know how I got this rep and what in that last post indicates aggression at all?

I think you got this rep because you can get rather aggressive in your replies at times and in this aspect are one of the more noticable on this board. Once you get a certain reputation it's really hard to get rid of and people will try to find confirmations of this rep so certain replies accepted from other board members might not be accepted from you. Again I say that in this thread (until perhaps the post I am answering here) this was not the case.

It only happens with you people. On other boards I do not have this issue so I really find it hard to believe that the problem is 100% mine.

And situations like this only reinforce it.

Torg ios reacting to the name Dark Lord more than the content of the post.

And there's certain people here who go out of their way to perpetrate this image on me. Then they claim I am "acting" like a victim.

I think this right here shows something isn't right. I didn't even come close to attacking you, Torg, and somehow you feel the need to tell me to calm down and not start a flame war?

For what?

disagreeing with you?

This needs to end.

My opinion too.

[David Bergkvist]

My arguments against this change:
1. There already exist separation between passing, catching and dodging abililty in the form of skills. Passing even has it's own category. Giving a thrower both +1 ball control, pass and passing access is overdescription.
2. The reason AG 4 generally costs 20K is because of its dodging ability: all players can dodge during a turn, but the ball control part of it can only be used by three players per turn. So if an elf team has high ball control on their players and this costs 10K (there are no smaller cost steps), it means the elf teams will be wasting 80K per turn in stats they can't use.
3. I happen to like playing a fragile team that's good at dodging. If elf teams are made AG 3, BA 4, they will be less interesting.

[The Florist]

1. A matter of personal preference. Sure. I disagree, but that's just the way it is. Still, why is not +AG, pass and pass access overdescribing then?
And is this really "over"describing? If my admittedly limited understanding of football is correct, you don't see that many different positions worry about throwing the ball. Is the quarterback overdescribed?
2. You mean like beastmen paying 10k each for horns?
3. Essentially, your argument builds on the opinion that there are too few elf teams that are already diversified enough? Because nothing in the proposed changes prevent one elf team from being fragile and good at dodging. Possibly even unlike the other elf teams at the expense of having that +1 Balls over the board.

[Joemanji]

3. I happen to like playing a fragile team that's good at dodging. If elf teams are made AG 3, BA 4, they will be less interesting.

Well, a major reason for introducing BA would be to differentiate between different types of elf. So, for example, some elves would be AG3, BA4, some would be AG4, BA3 and some would be AG4, BA4.

[Patriarch]

I'm new to BB - but the games I have had it striked med as odd that AG was used for just about everything that had to do with the game. As a human player playing against elves it was frustrating how they dodged, passed, received, intercepted and picked up ball better than me. I would love to see some kind of division of attributes. Some difference between how good you are at playing the ball, and how good your are at dodging.

[Tritex]

3. I happen to like playing a fragile team that's good at dodging. If elf teams are made AG 3, BA 4, they will be less interesting.

Well, a major reason for introducing BA would be to differentiate between different types of elf. So, for example, some elves would be AG3, BA4, some would be AG4, BA3 and some would be AG4, BA4.

Now this is starting to get interesting!! Dodgey elves Vs passing elves...reminds me of wardancers Vs archers...

[The Florist]

3. I happen to like playing a fragile team that's good at dodging. If elf teams are made AG 3, BA 4, they will be less interesting.

Well, a major reason for introducing BA would be to differentiate between different types of elf. So, for example, some elves would be AG3, BA4, some would be AG4, BA3 and some would be AG4, BA4.

Yes, we have come full circle.

[Darkson]

3. I happen to like playing a fragile team that's good at dodging. If elf teams are made AG 3, BA 4, they will be less interesting.

Well, a major reason for introducing BA would be to differentiate between different types of elf. So, for example, some elves would be AG3, BA4, some would be AG4, BA3 and some would be AG4, BA4.

Yes, we have come full circle.

Which could be taken to mean that the circle we had is better than the square we have.

[The Florist]

Not quite what I was saying, but true enough.

[Joemanji]

So Dark Elves, described as the "running" elves might have BA3 and AG4. High Elves as the traditional "long bomb" elves might have BA4 and AG3. Maybe WEs would have 4 in both?

2. The reason AG 4 generally costs 20K is because of its dodging ability: all players can dodge during a turn, but the ball control part of it can only be used by three players per turn. So if an elf team has high ball control on their players and this costs 10K (there are no smaller cost steps), it means the elf teams will be wasting 80K per turn in stats they can't use.

I have long thought that player costs could have intervals of 5K rather than 10K. In that case, you could make BA worth 5K per point and AG worth 15K per point.

[The Florist]

But then we'd have 0.5 increments in TR (sorry, not up to speed with the vault)! So clunky!
And there are no possible ways to solve it! Oh the horror!

[Joemanji]

To be honest, on second thoughts I don't know if it would be necessary. Whilst AG would be used more often than BA, that doesn't automatically make it better. Just having a higher BA makes a player a potential threat as a receiver. Plus, high BA gives advantages when it comes to earning SPP and developing teams.

[Colin]

DL,
Never clamed you were attacking me, nor was I attacking you because I saw it was Dark Lord who posted. Didn't want this thread going off topic debating what to call the new attribute....I came up with the idea and I want to call it Manual Dexterity. I was trying to explain to Naz that MD is different than AG and that Dex and AG aren't interchangable. I made a comment about D&D mentality that you seemed to have taken offense at (but of course you never take offense, hey I've probably played D&D long before you ever did, so what), so I was trying to say, "hey let's just drop this agrueing over what to call it and just get on with the discussion before it degrades into a flame war"\
So wasn't accusing you of starting a flame war or starting anything else, just wanted to keep the thread on topic. And I really don't care if anyone disagrees with me or not.
As far as the whole Ball control or Ball Handling ablility goes, I still think it sounds dumb, like calling MA running ablility, or AG dodging ablitly. Still won't change my mind on it whether everyone else disagrees or not.
So let's just drop it.


Just for the record, this idea was thrown out there to show that the game could be improved with just a slight modification, but personally I prefer the 2ed statlines, I do like MA and Sprint being split (I liked the sprinting mechanic in 2ed, don't think it was complex at all) and liked the TS and CL (though I didn't like the name Coolness, sounded dumb too, why not Catching skill since TS is Throwing skill). 3ed mechanics with some 2ed additions (like sprinting) and 2ed statlines would be my idea of a better game, but this small change wouldn't change the game mechanics at all, except for what stat to use for passing, catching, intercepting and picking up the ball (AG still used for dodging, shadowing, diving catch, leap), so would be an easier change to make. Adding a new stat wouldn't be all that hard, just set down a few guidelines; all BGs have MD 1, SWs (other than bomber) have MD 0, linemen (and blockers) have MD 2 (elves would have MD 3), Blithzers MD 3 (elves might stay the same, debateable), Throwers MD 4 (elves MD 5, presuming an AG 3), Cathcers MD 4 (elves might stay the same especially if AG was 4 as well). Teams based on racial positions would be decided on a case by case basid, depending on what they would closest resemble as far as postional players. I wouldn't be against giving certain races, other than elves, a higher MD, such as Halflings (supposed to have good hand eye co-ordination). As far as elves go, I think the only players that NEED a high AG are catchers and blitzers, I think Linemen and throwers could have AG 3. All races tend to have a range for their physical abilities, I don't think any one attribute should be constant throughout the positions of any race, needs to be a bit of a variety.

[Pink Horror]

Do you think I sit slamming my keyboard foaming at the mouth everytime I type a response?

Every time?

Anyway, none of you picked a good name. It should be called "Hands". Every stat should have a one-syllable name. This isn't some stupid RPG.

Speed - Strength - Form - Hands - Hide

(If you don't like "Form", I think "Juice" would be a fun name.)

[The Florist]

Don't like Form, don't like Hide, but the idea is great.