New Handicap Table ... right idea?

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 3:48 pm

Since FUMBBL introduced the LRB handicap table, I've played a few matches that's been decided by those rolls. It's the old problem of rolls outside the pitch making too much difference.

Now, this can't possibly be totally avoided with a handicap table, but there are some effects where the randomness can be toned down.

For example, Morley's revenge targets D3 players, randomly chosen, and then the effect is even more random because they're only out of the drive on a 4+.

When this means that 3 of a teams top players are out for most of the game, it can be devastating. When it means that a single lineman is gone for a drive, it's not.

How about this: one opponent (of your choice) will only be able to play every other drive, beginning with the second one.

Would that be one too many "you select an opponent player who can't play"-result? Then just skip one of them. In Galak's table (which seems like a very good start) we could well roll D6's instead of D8's.

Games which gets determined on rolls outside the pitch just isn't any fun!

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Sun Jan 25, 2004 7:54 pm

Unless the games were sometimes decided by those rolls, the handicap table would serve no purpose.

Blammaham · Post by **Blammaham** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 2:36 am

agreed in fact isn't that the whole point of handicaps? To create some adversity for the more experianced team, I think so.S.

MickeX · Post by **MickeX** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 4:20 pm

Mestari wrote:Unless the games were sometimes decided by those rolls, the handicap table would serve no purpose.

You're missing the point: the game is not decided by the fact that one team got a handicap roll, but by which handicap roll that was. If I won a game because my opponents team was about as good as mine without his top scorer, I had to play good too to win. If I won because his team suddenly became much worse than mine because of a single handicap roll, it won't be as much fun.

take it to the extreme: we could have a handicap table where all results do nothing at all, except for rolling a 1 which means you win on Walk Over. This could be made to be very balancing in terms of Win/Loss-ratios, but it wouldn't be very much fun.

That's why there shouldn't be unecessary randomness about how good a particular 10p/20p/40p roll is.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:20 pm

A fair point.
However, I don't see a problem in the handicap effectiveness being somewhat random. It's not supposed to be a "guaranteed to give you a 15% edge over your current level"-system either, although the variation must not be too big.

And still, I think there should be times when the coach of the better team says that the handicaps cost him the game.

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 8:55 pm

Mestari wrote:And still, I think there should be times when the coach of the better team says that the handicaps cost him the game.

I don't really see it this way, IMO the handicap table should even the odds not totally reverse them.

I don't ever want a handicap to mean that however badly I play against my opponent i'll still win because he was stiched up.

The role of the handicap is to even the odds (a little) so that if I play well or my opponent plays badly (or both) I have a chance of winning.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Jan 26, 2004 9:04 pm

Munkey wrote:I don't really see it this way, IMO the handicap table should even the odds not totally reverse them.

By the way ... an aside ... this is precisely the reason why the buy whatever handicap you want idea on the other big thread would never work even if the poll makes it look like folks like it ... its always aimed with this in mind. I am listening to the polls ... but I'm also trying to see some of the things I'm not sure if folks are seeing behind the ideas.

This quote by Munkey is dead on what is the problem with the purchase the exact handicap you want. Having played with handicaps for sometime ... I really not sure I see any of the 40 point handicaps as game ending ... a good coach is still a good coach. If not having your 2 stars means you cannot win ... well ... to me that says something by itself.

Galak

Blammaham · Post by **Blammaham** » Tue Jan 27, 2004 3:50 am

I dont think that it is possible to get a handicap that isn't going to give an underdog team too big of an advantage in some cases and not enough help in others. some time a certain race is going to be able to cover some effects of the handicap. Elves can easily work around greased shoes for example, where the same result can seriously effect lower ag teams. I think that the randomness is part of the handicap I personaly like, somtimes you get lucky and other times it dosn't help as much.
Now that being said I would be in favor of making the handicap more helpfull to the underdog in terms of keeping their players on the field.S.

Alesdair · Post by **Alesdair** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:01 am

Well we had the first game using this handicap table a few days ago...

my 184 Choas V 248 Woodies...

I took a 20 and 40 point.
Got kid gloves which went on his only player with a ST upgrade (and block), and the Hey You! whose frenzy was instrumental in putting about 3 or 4 players off the ptich over the length of the game...

We forgot the kid gloves, and he rolled for downing my troll, and killed it!, and it didn't regenerate!!, but then we remembered the kid gloves and MAN was i relieved!!!

he won, 3-2 in extra time... infact, in his 7th turn in extra time.

No other team had even got that close to them in their last 6-7 games. I think the team that had done the best reciently lost 2-4 and they were about the same TR.

So yes, the Handicap table as proposed didn't let the weaker team win, but it gave us a good fighting chance, making a very balanced game.

So we approve of these tables 100%

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:15 am

Munkey wrote: I don't really see it this way, IMO the handicap table should even the odds not totally reverse them.

I don't mean to reverse them. I mean that every now and then, the handicaps ought to be the little something that resolved the game for the underdogs.
So if they sometime do, it should not be a reason for watering them down.

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 12:53 pm

Mestari wrote:
Munkey wrote: I don't really see it this way, IMO the handicap table should even the odds not totally reverse them.
I don't mean to reverse them. I mean that every now and then, the handicaps ought to be the little something that resolved the game for the underdogs.
So if they sometime do, it should not be a reason for watering them down.

I think we are probably talking about the same sort of effects, just the words getting in the way

I would say that once stratified the handicaps are OK, there is no need to tone any down, just make sure the more powerful ones are on the highest table.

Mestari · Post by **Mestari** » Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:02 pm

I suppose we are

Anyhow, my point is that the handicaps, although they are not supposed to be too good, must not feel useless either, so they should not be watered down too much at least.

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:30 pm

In that case i think we agree

reservoirelves · Post by **reservoirelves** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:16 am

This table is definatly better than the existing one and is at least as good as the other suggested replacements I have seen. It is proportional and consistent, which are the biggest things the current table lacks.

I prefer that the handicap be selected by rolling on the table instead of selecting one from a list. Rolling for the specific handicap leaves the right level of randomness in the process.

NightDragon · Post by **NightDragon** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:25 pm

A big improvement to me. The current handicap table handicaps no-one. this should make the games slightly closer without negating hard earnt TR points.

Talk Fantasy Football

New Handicap Table ... right idea?

Simplified Scaled Handicap Table