New Handicap Table ... right idea?

Jugular · Post by **Jugular** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:55 pm

ian you can't get it at TR11 difference?! You have to have at least 40 TR difference before it makes any difference. The only time it is a non result is if the other team has less than 11 players. The number of elf teams I see with that few players on FUMBLL is quite high (not that everything should follow FUMBBL). If a team has more than 11 players In the Bag is a great handicap. It is entirely down to you whethere or not you take the lead so by playing it carefully and making the most of your time with the handi it can be an excellent result. I still wonder what can be done to avoid that (not so uncommon) null result (reroll?).

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:19 pm

I was comparing In the Bag from the current handicap table to Galak's.

Dangerous Dave · Post by **Dangerous Dave** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:47 pm

My experience of in the bag (I had the high TR team) was that this won the game completely for McDeth (my opponent).

Basically my team was Khemri and unfortunately I had a full roster.... 8 of which were 1 skilled (or mainly) no skilled skeletons. Since both my 3 skilled throw ras had been killed in the last 2 games, I had 2 unskilled throw ras (which are effectivley 1 skilled skeletons with Sure Hands (Pass is useless when you have noone to pass it to)). So to start the game, I had.......

1 unskilled Mummy
2 unskilled throw ras
8 skeletons (5 of which had no skills - I think this is right).

At the Kick Off McDeth won a Throw a rock (or was it a pitch invasion?) - one of the other handicap rolls reduced FF which as a minimum KO'd the mummy

I had won the toss and kicked - virtually the whole of the first half was a shambles with the Zons hitting my skeletons and running from side to side (have you ever seen skeletons do so many gfis to try and get an attack on the ball carrier?). At no point did McDeth try and score (not criticising - it was sensible tactics) until about turn 6. In the 2nd half although I had my good players back, because I had missed one half of bashing, I couldn't pick up and move the ball and lost 1-0 (try dodging with skeletons!).

Sitting on the bench were:

3 Mummies each with at least 2 skills - 1 had 3 (I think)
2 Blitz Ras - 1 with 3 skills and 1 with 2 (at least - they both could've had 3).

But for the Handicap roll, the match would've been very different. 3 dice blocks from Piling On (pre 2003 Rules Review) Mummies put Zons in the cas box very quickly........

Dave

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:16 am

this table seems alot simpler and less random than the other one but I don't think it will get the winning percentages to where jervis wants them. I think a 50TR difference your pretty much screwed. I really don't know what the right idea is but the more i think about it I don't think this is.

begbie · Post by **begbie** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 5:17 am

Go the new handicap table!

In my humble opinion handicaps are designed not only to give the underdogs a leg up but to make the game more interesting to play.

I was a big fan of the special play cards because they made a game more interesting. With the new handicap table not only can you try and pick some handicaps to give your team an edge but, when combined with pre-match prep cards, they give a game of bloodbowl that extra bit of uncertainty.

I'm part way through a couple of games in the mbbl2 as the underdogs and using the new handicap system. In one I had 120 points to spend on handicaps

and in the other only 40 odd

. I picked a range of handicaps to see how it would work out for me. I'm especially impressed with the Iron Man and Intensive Training results. Iron Man gives my newbie teams the guarantee that at least one of its players will survive the match and the Training will help any newbie team get a skill for one match that can be chosen to help alleviate the opposing teams brilliance. My big guy can get Pro for example, or my Savage Orc Blitzer can pick up Tackle to help take down those pesky elves.

On a side note, while Palmed Coin may not appear to be that useful the opportunity to recieve automatically should the game go in to overtime could be extremly helpful. Should the game go into overtime...

dpdx · Post by **dpdx** » Sat Jan 10, 2004 7:15 am

I like the new handicap table. If I had my way, though, the majority of the results would go to protecting the underdog's players from further harm than actually winning. For example, how about:

Metal Alloy: The Armormaker's Convention is in town, and quite a few of the smyths are fans of your team. In exchange for prime seats at midfield, they develop a special alloy that gives each of your players +1 AV for this game only.

Come to think of it - my first game in the Lustrian Second Division is against none other than Galak's Second Division Fling Team, both teams TR 100. Galak? Second Division? I should get a handicap roll!

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Sun Jan 11, 2004 7:59 pm

I must admit that I like these tables. Good work Galak.
2 results I'm not too sure about:

*Winds of Change looks very good to me. Maybe it is more of a 20 pointer than a 10 pointer.
*IMO, In the Bag should be replaced with something else. It can be a complete deadweight in some matches - yet in other matches it can be disgustingly powerful.

If the 24 results, this one gets my "nix" vote.
Cheers
Martin

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 2:56 am

plasmoid wrote:*Winds of Change looks very good to me. Maybe it is more of a 20 pointer than a 10 pointer.

My opponent just had this result. He changed my Blitz on him to Throw a Rock which stunned one of his players ... cannot say I really saw it as more than a 10 point change. Its not always going to give you a Blitz, plasmoid. I still think its a 10. I mean if I'm rolling all Perfect Weathers (most probable result) ... how good is this?

Galak

gken1 · Post by **gken1** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 4:49 am

i'd like the team anthem switched to Bad Press: opposing teams ff is halved.

Alesdair · Post by **Alesdair** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 6:51 am

Our annual league meeting decided to go with this table this year...

We'll let you know how it goes.

begbie · Post by **begbie** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:18 am

GalakStarscraper wrote:
plasmoid wrote:*Winds of Change looks very good to me. Maybe it is more of a 20 pointer than a 10 pointer.
My opponent just had this result. He changed my Blitz on him to Throw a Rock which stunned one of his players ... cannot say I really saw it as more than a 10 point change. Its not always going to give you a Blitz, plasmoid. I still think its a 10. I mean if I'm rolling all Perfect Weathers (most probable result) ... how good is this?

Galak

To follow this up (i'm the opponent).
I would have loved to use Winds of Change to give ME a blitz during the match, but like Galak said, if its all perfect weathers its not going to make much difference. On the opening kick off it would have made bugger all difference (i think we did get a weather result) and then Galak stormed in for the TD.

I chose to change the blitz to throw a rock on the next kickoff because i thought it would do my team less damage, and probably would have changed from a pitch invasion for the same reason.

You're not always going to get that bonus blitz with winds of change and circumstances (especially with the underdog team) are going to have a strong influence on whether or not you use the handicap. SOOO, quite happy with my 10pts but wouldn't have wanted to spend 20 on it, so to speak

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 7:53 pm

I don't agree with the analysis of wind of change.
It greatly increases your chance of getting one of the really good results.
If it doesn't do that, it can keep your opponent away from those as well.
Thats a lot of chances all in all.

As for the example: I do think that getting 1 player stunned is far better than taking a blitz and potentially losing the ball (game). If 1 stun is so terrible, perhaps begbie should have moved the Kick-Off result "down" one, and given away a reroll instead.

But whatever. Don't let this overshadow the important thing.
The important thing is this:
In the Bag is simply an incredibly good, game shattering result.
Pleeease. Give us something else. Anything else.
I don't mind a leg up. Not even a big leg up.
But losing clearly to 1 result is a little too much.
Martin

(And notice how I'm not the only one bringing this up).

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:53 pm

Martin,

I'm going to track all the games in the MBBL2, the TR differences, and the handicaps received.

If I see that one result is really doing too much I promise I will address it. The MBBL2 is really going strong with 40+ games in process already (several with handicaps). MBBL is starting next month so I'll report all the data I'm seeing and let you guys see how its all working (or to be honest how its not working if it isn't).

Galak

begbie · Post by **begbie** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 2:43 am

plasmoid wrote:I don't agree with the analysis of wind of change.
It greatly increases your chance of getting one of the really good results.
If it doesn't do that, it can keep your opponent away from those as well.
Thats a lot of chances all in all.

As for the example: I do think that getting 1 player stunned is far better than taking a blitz and potentially losing the ball (game). If 1 stun is so terrible, perhaps begbie should have moved the Kick-Off result "down" one, and given away a reroll instead.

Don't get me wrong, 1 stun wasn't that terrible and your right, much better than the blitz. I just didn't think that Galak needed the free reroll

Just trying to give an indication that it wasn't the easiest handicap in terms of actually planning for its use, you've got a couple of great options with it, in attack or defence, but you only get one change a match, and a good one may never come up

But whatever. Don't let this overshadow the important thing.
The important thing is this:
In the Bag is simply an incredibly good, game shattering result.
Pleeease. Give us something else. Anything else.
I don't mind a leg up. Not even a big leg up.
But losing clearly to 1 result is a little too much.
Martin
(And notice how I'm not the only one bringing this up).

I'd have to play with In the Bag to give you an educated opinion but...
it only lasts till the underdogs take the lead. Not that the higher TR team wants the underdogs to score but it may be best to give away an easy TD and then come back with a full team and really put in some competition.
Sure the underdogs can hold back from scoring themselves but they risk the higher TR team taking the ball and the lead...
IMHO higher TR teams didn't get there on the basis of their players alone and will get the (small) advantage of their coach having some idea of what to do with them.
In the bag does, however, come across as an either relatively useless or extremely valuable 40pt option (but it would've been great in one of my other games)

Michael

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Tue Jan 13, 2004 9:09 am

Hi Michael,
like Galak said, he is getting the feedback.
So I'm keeoing my fingers crossed.

In my 36 man league this is one of the few results that got removed from the original table because it was too good. I consider it too good even at 40 points because it completely changes the game played.
I could have 30 of them over here screaming and moaning - but I'd rather not

So let's just hope that it actually comes up a few times in Galaks playtest material. Otherwize, we have a few examples from my league and others

Cheers
Martin

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New Handicap Table ... right idea?

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