Kicking

[Joemanji]

But getting back on topic, why does there need to be field goals? I was once of the opinion that Blood Bowl was missing something in its translation of American Football without field goals; maybe it's because I'm getting old (I turn 40 tomorrow) but I think to allow kicking into the game, you need to keep it simple. I like the idea of not being able to kick the ball off the ground (which you can't do in the NFL anyway), and the idea of disallowing the ability to pass the ball to an empty square (I hate intentional grounding, especially now that it's become such a part of American Football). Adding these two caveats to Joe's rules would make them perfect IMHO. Like I said before on this thread: keep it simple, stupid.

I agree, trying to fit field goals into the rules was what made Chet's rules such a mess. I like your caveats, although that does hurt Animosity and Diving Catch. Maybe not such a problem now that DC has been boosted, or maybe you could just define non-legal squares as squares without a player in them or adjacent to them.

[DesTroy]

I agree, trying to fit field goals into the rules was what made Chet's rules such a mess. I like your caveats, although that does hurt Animosity and Diving Catch. Maybe not such a problem now that DC has been boosted, or maybe you could just define non-legal squares as squares without a player in them or adjacent to them.

Sounds good to me. As for Animosity, well, I'll have to take a close look at that before I comment.

[Joemanji]

I too favor the initial rule. I would make a slight change (see below) so that a 1 and a 2 fumble, not just a 1. Otherwise, sounds good to me.

On thinking, I really think the 2+ away roll is fundamental. If you want to decrease the chances of getting the ball away, I'd rather it were from a secondary mechanism such as blocking a kick (like an interception).

E.g. - "Any player within 2 sqaures of the kicker and nearer to the target square of the kick than the kicker may attempt to block the kick. Make an AG roll with a -1 modifier. If successful the kick has been blocked and will bounce once from the square of the player who made the block."

[Joemanji]

I have been thinking a lot about kicking, and I think I have a few tweaks that polish it up (noted in red below):

Add the following to the Extra Rules section:

KICKING THE BALL
A player may attempt to kick the ball as far upfield as he can, although this tends to be wildly inaccurate. Add the Kick action to the list of actions like Move, Block, Pass etc. A player may move before kicking the ball, but not afterwards. Roll a D6. On a 1 the player fumbles the kick, and the ball will fumble in the same way as a pass. On a roll of 2 or more the kick is away! A -1 modifier applies to this roll for every opposing player in the kicker's tackle zone, and for every opposing player within one square of the kicker and closer to the destination square than the kicker himself. A kick may not be intercepted. To resolve a kick the coach simply places the ball anywhere on the pitch and scatters it just like a kick-off. A kick will always result in a turnover, even if it is caught by a member of the moving team. If the ball scatters out of play at any point then the opposing team is awarded a touchback. During play this is resolved by him giving the ball to one player of his choice who is standing in his own half of the field. If a coach has no players standing in his own half of the pitch, or does not wish to give it to them, then the ball is thrown back in by the crowd and lands where it may.

Also change Kick skill so that it effects kick actions.

Modify Kickoff Return so that it works on kick actions too.

Change Stunty so that it says -1 modifier to passing and kicking.

Up And Under (General Skill)
When the player kicks the ball he may loft it high in the air so it takes some time to come down. After kicking the ball, a coach may roll a D6 at the start of the opposing team's turn. This is how many players must take an action before the ball finally lands. Until then the ball is not in play and may not be held by any player. If a player is standing in the square where the ball eventually lands, then he may attempt to catch it in the same way as a kickoff. If the moving team suffers a turnover before the ball has landed, it will do so immediately. This skill may not be used on a kickoff, where the receiving team has more time to organise themselves.


(You could also add DesTroy's changes so that pass can't be intentionally grounded).

[sumbloke]

One possibility I thought of as I was reading through this topic was that Kick could be made more like kicking in NFL (or at least, my understanding of how it works in NFL given I don't actually follow the game) by having the kicking player end their move adjacent to the player holding the ball. This also makes it rather different to passing.

[mattgslater]

I like Joe's Rugby-Kick idea. I'd make a few changes, though.

A) Either sumbloke's concept of a holder, in which case you could even make the 2+ roll an AG roll at +2 for the holder (-1 per enemy TZ), or a "kick instead of move" rule, as dropkicking on the run is much harder.

B) Take out the "touchback" bit: once a drive's begun, a kick out-of-bounds just gets thrown in.

C) Weaken the Kick skill, like the allowing a re-roll on the d6/d8 scatter roll instead of halving the distance.

Field goal mechs just ain't gonna work, IMO.

If you're happier with 3+ than with 2+, allow kicks to be intercepted by any player with a TZ on the kicker, and make Pass Block work on kicks. Note in the NFL how nigh-impossible it is to block a kick. But still, 2+/5- is very similar to 3+.

[Joemanji]

Thanks for the response. The 2+ roll is pretty key IMO to differentiate kicking from passing - i.e. you can get rid of the ball, but in a wildly inaccurate way. But I added the -1 modifier for players "within 1 square of the kicker and closer to the destination square than the kicker himself". This in a way makes the 2+ roll a bit less nailed on, and also describes kicks being charged down. Btw in rugby (where you can't pass forwards, only kick) charging down of a kick happens regularly, and is a common way to score a try.

I initially like your idea of Kick re-rolling the D6 (but only on kick actions, not kickoffs). I had some doubts about how easy it would be to kick to a corner (that was why I put the touchback rule in).

I also see your point about not being able to move and kick. If you added that there would be no need to have rules about secondary kickers IMO. Handing off to a player well placed to kick would be a commonplace tactic, and this describes the movement of "placing" the ball pretty well.

Kicking was a central part of the 1st edition rules, and featured in 2nd ed too. I think they would be a viable and interesting addition to modern BB. Even if it just meant giving teams a Kicker positional with Kick and HMP at the most basic level.

[Khar-peth]

I always missed kicking in BB so Im very interested by any good houserule to use in my league.
Here are a few questions and thoughts :

- a kick action is not a pass so I assume you cant use NoS when kicking ? Pass Block cant be used against kicking as well ?
-would you give all rosters a kicker positionnal ?
-I personaly wouldnt give every kicker the kick skill but instead access to kicking skills (kick, up and under-which is a finely tuned version of the earlier punt skill-and well... I guess we'd need more to make a category of its own)

Take out the "touchback" bit: once a drive's begun, a kick out-of-bounds just gets thrown in

agree. Touchbacks are for kick-offs only

-this version of kicking makes HMP rather redundant, dont you think ?

-the use of kicking would mainly be a "protective/defensive" one...
so now imagine your rookie kicker got a +AG, for his later development wouldnt you be tempted to forget kicking skills and makes him more of a thrower/multitask lineman ?
which brings me to :
I still miss field goals !!
without FG, a kicker positional lacks the "game decider" potential it had in the 2nd edition.

Field goal mechs just ain't gonna work, IMO.

care to explain why ?