New skills: block and knock down

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sun Oct 05, 2003 5:39 pm

yes but practically every player can take block so that balences it out

its been the current way for almost a decade now and i can't see it changing or a real need to chance it

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Sun Oct 05, 2003 6:01 pm

has been that way for a while but still could be too powerfull. Few people hate it and I am not totally aginst, but block is one pwerfull skill. If the counter arguement would pick both off and def block STILL as first skills then it must proove how amazng it is. If it could be strength skill then would be intersting reduction... think may have to playtest it. Does anyone disagree that block is THE skill to have? Is it possible for a homegrown star player not to have Block and be good?

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sun Oct 05, 2003 6:47 pm

yes it is throwers don't need block

catchers can do without it too but its handy to have

if it isn't broke don't fix it

NightDragon · Post by **NightDragon** » Sun Oct 05, 2003 7:10 pm

I like the skills as they stand. If you can block you can block, whether its aggressive or defensive. On the other hand its not something I would be anti, say like aging.

Pardus · Post by **Pardus** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 10:36 am

here's the real question... how would you handle the skills? (sounds simple at first)

using the Off Block in Str and using Def Block in Gen

mechanics and wording

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:11 pm

Think the skill offensive block could be a strength skill, thus limiting it. But that would give benefit to tackle as a general anti-dodge general skill.

Def block could be general because I image its a poor choice compared to the hitting version for unskilled players.

However the purpose is to add diversity to league team development and reduce the power of block. Yet if both skills were general and thus more available, then this would either prove other skills as more of an option (you dont have to worry about losing a block arms war), or reduce things and create less diversity and make blitzers better players for each team.

Grumbledook wrote "if it isn't broke don't fix it"
But the purpose of this thread is too work a solution to a broken rule that is essential to the game as it stands. think this ref pretty much backs up this subject
http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB2/vie ... php?t=3424

NightDragon · Post by **NightDragon** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:31 pm

You'll have to spell that out in a bit more detail for me to follow it, low IQ and all that!

juck101 · Post by **juck101** » Mon Oct 06, 2003 9:51 pm

Zombie "you wouldn't get the boring situation where everybody in the league has block after only one skill."

This is a problem with the game, there is lots of proof that block is THE best skill. This is because it does two of the best things in the game.
1 Keeps you upright on a face of the dice
2 knocks over other players and gives you only 1-6 chance of failing a block

It is not regarded as broken because of the mechanics of the game using this face of a dice to represent the skill. But because of the popularity (dont tell me everyone in your league has picked shadow instead) players are not stupid and pick this great skill often (too often).

Now maybe I should start a new thread what can we suggest as a cure for this problem. Yes it is fundamental to the game with Blizers born with the skill, but does anyone know how to split it in the current rules? I think it is too powerfull compared to any other skill.

If it was restricted to strength skill would we all choose it anyway for our team, or would more other skills be picked resulting in less block. I think offensive block ( knock over players on dice) would still be a good choice. But a defensive block (safe on both knock over dice) would be a poor cousin thus less of a choice. Then more players would be knocked over.
Sorry may have to shut up and playtest it....

Munkey · Post by **Munkey** » Thu Oct 09, 2003 9:18 pm

I don't see Block as broken, in that the game needs it fixing to be fun/fair but it is powerful enough that everyone takes it (in most cases it tends to be the best skill except for throwers and linemen needing one offs like Kick).

This fact means that Block gets taken more often and we see less interesting skills and diversity across teams.

Dodge is almost as bad in combination with Block although it's effect is limited because of lesser access and tackle, and the whole thing is compounded by the addition of two teams basically made up of Linemen with these skills.

If there is a way to resolve this without breaking the delicate game balance then I would like to give it a try and see how it works.

The more I think about it the more I see this as a possible solution:

Make Block a ST skill, this limits access to the bashy teams, meaning that the other more agile teams get to Dodge instead and Blitzers still get to be good at both on the agile teams.

This does hurt the middle teams however like Humans and Skaven (especially) where they have no Dodge and the linemen in particular will take a pounding without Block.

My solution is to have two General skill categories, one for AG teams (without Block) and one for other teams (with Block). There is maybe scope for restricting access to some of the other skills as well for certain teams but again we are affecting play balance.

Effectively I allow some teams linemen (and maybe throwers) access to Block but not others and not Catchers.

I think this may be the solution but it comes at the price of an inelegant rules exception

Well sorry for the long post, hope it all makes sense. Please note that I am ruling out the possibility of it ain't broke so don't fix it with this post, I think we've been over this argument thouroughly and I'm looking for solutions for coaches who may want to try a different way.