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Dauntless
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:46 am
by BoomFrog
I'm playing in the Cyanicde perpetual league and there's a lot of Chaos and a decent amount of Orc and Lizards represented. Since my humans aren't too good at dodging away my plan is to get wrestle/dauntless on all my linemen, and maybe a catcher. And get guard on all my blitzers. It seems like I should be able to fight off most orcs and chaos even if they have a lot more natural strength, because they will mark me which gives me the first hit most of the time. Any flaw in my plan?
I did some math for dauntless chance to cause a turnover. Does this seem right? Dauntless seems REALLY strong.
Code: Select all
Block and Dauntless Str 3 Vs Str X
Chance of Turnover Chance of a Takedown (no dodge)
Str Assists No reroll RR First Fail RR Block Dice No reroll RR First Fail RR Block Dice
3 0 16.7% 2.8% 2.8% 33.3% 38.9% 38.9%
4 0 19.0% 5.5% 3.9% 29.6% 37.3% 34.8%
5 0 21.3% 9.0% 5.0% 25.9% 34.6% 30.8%
3 1 2.8% 0.1% 0.1% 55.6% 57.1% 57.1%
4 1 5.1% 0.9% 0.5% 51.9% 56.2% 54.1%
5 1 12.0% 4.1% 3.2% 40.7% 51.6% 42.9%
5 2 7.4% 2.5% 1.0% 48.1% 54.1% 51.0%
Re: Dauntless
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:47 am
by Grumbledook
well the issue with dauntless is that it makes no difference when they hit you and against the majority of players it will be useless
even on orcs there are only 5 players that it will help against if you give it to a lineman
fend is usually better so you don't have to dodge away and can reposition easier
that helps with moving a cage and/or you can go and assist a team mate elsewhere, again negating the need for dauntless
guard is far better though requires a double roll for most the human team
dauntless on a catcher can be handy though, mostly would be used when blitzing an opposing thrower/ball carrier deep in their own half, in which case they are usually ST3
having said that, block/wrestle and side step are far more use before even considering dauntless and I think diving tackle would be better most the time as a third choice and then perhaps tackle
it is also likely you got a double on one by this point so they can get guard and you don't really need dauntless
I would say dauntless is one of the skills that probably isn't taken as often as it should be, though it sounds like you are giving it way more credit that its practical application
hope that helps ;]
Re: Dauntless
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:10 am
by Ulthuan_Express
Dauntless is best on teams where there is no big guy, or no-one of ST4 or higher, giving them a shot at taking down the big guys on their own (All flavours of elves, Amazons, Stunties, etc).
Like Grumbledook, I think you are giving it more credit than it's worth. Stick it on one of your Blitzers, followed by something like MB and Frenzy, and you'll have (as close as regular humans can get to) a Big Guy takedown artist.
Catchers that you use as safeties can benefit from it too, but don't put your faith in it too much.
Re: Dauntless
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:13 am
by Grumbledook
I can't really ever see much of a case for dauntless on a human blitzer, there are too many other great strength skills for them to take instead
especially when everyone else on the team can just take dauntless anyway and they don't have access to strength skills
Re: Dauntless
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:16 am
by Ullis
I think there might be a problem with some of your calculations. With a 1-d block (two chances to get a POW) you have a chance of 33,3% with one dice. With a reroll it goes up to 55% (1-4/6*4/6) whereas you have the odds as 38,9%. Couldn't check the other numbers but there's clearly an error there.
Re: Dauntless
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:19 am
by voyagers_uk
Agree with 'dook, Human Blitzers have too many other tasty skills they can access.
Dauntless is better on a lineman or maybe a surprise catcher skill.
Re: Dauntless
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:29 am
by Ulthuan_Express
I suggested putting it on the Blitzer as they start with Block already, and a 1 in 3 chance of a lineman pointlessly Dauntlessing up to Block a Troll isn't something I'm willing to go for!
Re: Dauntless
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:34 pm
by Grumbledook
me either, that's why I don't usually bother blocking the troll and why I don't often take dauntless
Re: Dauntless
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:03 pm
by BoomFrog
Ullis wrote:I think there might be a problem with some of your calculations. With a 1-d block (two chances to get a POW) you have a chance of 33,3% with one dice. With a reroll it goes up to 55% (1-4/6*4/6) whereas you have the odds as 38,9%. Couldn't check the other numbers but there's clearly an error there.
I am assuming you only reroll if you got a skull so the chance to knock down is 2/6+1/6*2/6. If you going for the BC I could see rerolling push to hope for a Pow, but otherwise I'd be expecting to use these numbers.
@everyone else: The problem is that I am facing these amazingly farmed perpetual league teams, especially chaos. I just faced a chaos team with two Str 5 CW, 2 Str 4 CW and a Str 4 Beast.
Even just 5 Str 4+ players seems like enough to make dauntless very worthwhile in mass, otherwise I'm taking a lot more hits, because I can't threaten my opponent. I'm probably going to try it anyway :p
Re: Dauntless
Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:08 pm
by Grumbledook
guess in a farmed league with not all the races and not all the skills working things are going to change a bit