Little League starting

[BigD]

I actually went back through the rules on this before doing it and the rules actually say 'If the player is in the EndZone with the ball and the end of his action then its a TD'. At the end her action she had already thrown the ball to another player therefore the ball wasn't in the endzone and not a TD. I did check the living rulebook on this as well. It may be a technicality but one worth exploiting I believe.

BigD

[Norse]

That is the lowest form of power gaming sadness I have ever heard..

Sorry BigD, you're a nice guy and all, but that sucks.

A TD is a TD, period. Stop hunting SPPs in a game where you have clearly had all the luck anyway..

I thought this little league was supposed to be fun and relaxed, not a powergamers wet dream....

[McDeth]

Star Player points for a hand-off.

Perhaps thats one of the new rules in BBMAG3

If you'd tried that play against me and failed i would have died laughing.

But why risk it anyway, sound like you had the TD guarenteed then went for 3 extra risky at least 3+ die rolls to get a crummy 1 extra SPP.

[Dangerous Dave]

I agree with Norse... maybe your interpretation of the rules say this may be possible but it should never be allowed. As soon as a player is standing in the End Zone with the ball its a TD. Just take the 3 SPPs and be thankful the die rolls have been on your side.

Sorry - but that play is not in the spirit of the game.


Dave

[BigD]

Hi Guys,

Sorry I didn't realise that and was going for finesse. The league is for fun and I agree the luck has gone my way in this game. I guess I was exploiting it as I've never had a game go this well.

So if in a tournament would this style of play be allowed? Or is it only 'Not in the spirit of the game' when played with PBEM. I actually had somebody do pretty much this play at the Resurrection hence I figured if its good for that then why not for PBEM?

If not then I won't bother in future so I guess it means I have to change my tactics a little. No problem

BigD

[McDeth]

Hi Guys,

So if in a tournament would this style of play be allowed? Or is it only 'Not in the spirit of the game' when played with PBEM. I actually had somebody do pretty much this play at the Resurrection hence I figured if its good for that then why not for PBEM?

BigD

Where is the benefit, all your risking is a turnover for only 1SPP, and in most recent tournaments SPP's are unimportant, the Touchdown is and the result. With a team being allowed to choose one new skill for one player at the end of the game. Therefore i can see no benefit for this sort of tactic to be used. Fior the life of me i just dont see why someone would have done it at resurrection?????????

[BigD]

Guys,

Just one last message while I'm at it. Have advised Spyke regarding the SPP so had that removed. I'm sorry I didn't know about that rule, guess I've still got some reading etc to do.

BUT while I'm at it. Are there any other rules I/We should know about that exist in PBBEM but not in the real world? I'd like to know what else I should/shouldn't be doing? Is there anything else I should avoid 'In The Spirit Of The Game'.

I might sound a bit pissed of, and you'ld be right. I didn't mean to stand on or annoy anybody but sounds like I have. If others can offer clarification I'd appreciate it.

BigD

[GalakStarscraper]

Actually BigD several things here:

1) I agree with McDeth there would be zero reason for anyone to do this at Resurrection since the SPPs didn't matter. I cannot see why anyone would score and then throw a pass for to get an extra SPP. Its not a PBeM rule ... it just doesn't make any sense. So if someone did this a resurrection where TDs did matter a whole lot more than 1 completion SPP ... they were a small version of nuts.

2) If I was a commish at Resurrection, I'd rule that it was a TD as soon as the player was in the endzone regardless of the exact wording of the rulebook. Again this is not a PBeM thing ... this is just plain logic applied to the game ... in no sport can you score and then take it back temporarily that I'm aware of.

3) You don't get SPPs for handoffs so this was a risky play with a 30% chance of success to MAYBE get 1 extra SPP. Had it failed it would have earned you zero SPPs ... now it may just be me ... but I'd never ever try this play no matter what .... even if it was legal.

4) As for other rule changes in PBeM ... yah there are a couple ... declare kickoff spot after setting up the kicking team .... Side Step works sorta like Stand Firm ... Shadowing is rolled by the current player .... Diving Tackle and Shadowing have rules to determine if they are used or not during a turn. The full list is on Dangerous Dave's site for the RABBL or the MBBL. Spyke should probably cut and paste them onto the little league site to avoid confusion. However again, I'll say that this play is not a PBeM issue.

Galak

[BigD]

Hi Galak,

There appears to be some confusion. When I took the guy into the endzone with the ball we didn't count that as a TD as he hadn't completed his turn. His turn was complete once he'd thrown the ball to another player for the SPP (Completion). That player then ran back and handed it to him. This ended the play as he was in the endzone with the ball. This was the only TD awarded in this play.

I'd figured it was an acceptable odd as it was the catcher catching the ball with the CATCH skill and a reroll left as well. So a good chance for my final play. If I'd blown it then the ball was down that end of the field with the opposition have two players left on the field, one prone and the other completely surrounded.

Thanks for the other rules. Glad you mentioned Side Step as that was one I was thinking about quite seriously as opposed to the AG+1.

Thanks for the clarification. Appreciate it

BigD

[Norse]

OK, a few things..

firstly, sorry for my earlier outburst. It's just I feel like I know BigD pretty well, so I thought this whole tactic thing was really nasty and a bit beneath someone who is basically a really nice guy. Apologies if I came on a bit strong (my wife says that too )

secondly, BigD, you should be a lawyer! Anyone that can find a tiny loophole in the system allowing for 1 extra SPP probably shouldn't be playing with bandwidth, but with court cases..

thirdly, a TD is a TD the moment the line is crossed. Well done for finding the loophole, don't do it again!

[GalakStarscraper]

BigD,

nope I understood what you did perfectly. Even with Catch and a reroll the odds of the play working were:

Pass with reroll: 88.9%
Catch with skill reroll: 88.9%
Handoff catch: 66.7%

Overall odds of working: 52.7%

So here was your risk reward scenario in your turn:
Choice A:
3 SPPs: 100% chance

or

Choice B:
0 SPPs: 47.3%
4 SPPs: 52.7%
chance of irking your opponent with this play: 100%

given this scenario .... I don't see any reasonable person going for 4 .. yes, I know that you thought it was 5 .... but since it wasn't ... its was a foolish risk IN MY OPINION ... it was not in yours so that's fine.

Also like I said if I was commish, I'd rule that having the ball in the endzone even if you haven't "finished" your action is a turn ending event. I think that is the spirit of the rule ... my guess the rule is there for other reasons ... like GFIing into the endzone and failing but trying to claim it was a TD because you moved into the square standing and then fell down ... the wording is there to prevent this type of rules lawyering. I agree that the way the wording is that this play would seem legal, but if I was commish ... I'd rule to say that it was a TD as soon as the first player entered the endzone regardless of his intentions once there.

Again this is not a PBeM thing ... this would be my ruling for any type of league.

Galak

[McDeth]

Agreed. Its a TD whenever you enter the end zone with the ball, the fact that his turn hadn';t ended is immaterial.

In American Football, once the ball crosses the line its a touchdown. even if in some bizarre circumstance the Scorer then passed it back in play to another receiver, ( Which i cant see ever happening ). What would be the point.

Likewise in soccer, when the ball crosses the line its a goal, not when spomeone passes it back from the back of the net so Ruud Van Niostleroy cn score his 50th Goal of the season.

[BigD]

Hi Galak,

Like you say it was a risk. It paid off with the extra SPP but I know what you're saying. I was lucky and I'll accept that.

I understand the GFI going into the endzone and like yourself agree its not a TD at all. I wouldn't have thought about trying to attempt to argue that one but figured as I was already in the endzone with the ball and hadn't completed my turn then I didn't see any problem with passing the ball back to another player to run it in and handoff back. Okay if he'd blown it then YES I'd look the fool etc and that would be the end of my turn. I'd accept that without any problems at all. Lets face it, playing with my Orc team they've done similar and blown it pretty much every time. But we're working on that and no longer using the Ogre, or if we do he goes last. Thanks to an Ocker for that advice. Paid off. Appreciate it.

For future games I'll play it differently as you suggest and yes the TD move will be the last whether its by completion or a standard run in. BUT I'd have to say what would be your opinion with the following.

The catcher has run into the End Zone and waiting for the handoff/throw. Another player, a blitzer say has the ball is only 3 from the endzone runs up so he's next to the catcher and hands it to him. Should the Blitzer have run the ball in himself as he had the movement? This may happen as the catcher needs another 2 SPPs for his next skillroll. What should he/she do? And would it be considered commish? And NO I'm not a lawyer before anybody says it. Its just there is some intepretation of the rules and I think its something that should be proposed to the Living Rule Book so it is kept standard.

BigD

[BigD]

McDeth,

Great comparison and I'd have to agree it makes a lot of sense. Can we then have that added to the LRB please.

BigD

PS - Only pussies play soccer! Wrong shape bloody ball that one!

[Thadrin]

Actually in american football the ball doesn't have to cross the line.
If the ball so much as scratches the goal line its a TD.

By the stage Davin did this I was practically catatonic and didn't even notice what he'd done...I just wanted to get the damned game over.