Wood Elf 3 skill choices for fixed calender League

[El_Jairo]

Hi all, I need some advice on next 3 skill choices as this is the first season I play Woodies.

Here is the team.

FYI: invisible skills are:
Grab on Tree, Block on Catcher, Kick on Tree Willy, Dodge on Tree Wheeper, Wrestle on Tree Whisperer and Blodge on Treeguard.

I rolled normal on rookie, 11 and normal on Tacklers for skills (from top down on players).

There are 3 games left in this season: Battered Dark Elves (no tackle), Undead (with AG4 Blodge Ghoul) and Battered Skaven.

My initial thoughts are:
Take Wrestle on rooke liner, as I need someone for on the LoS.
Forgo +AG on Tackle Liner, Dodge will help better in short term mobility and survival.
Take also Dodge on the second tackler.

I'm doubting to forgo AG as it can be really good to have passing options and dodging through lines. On the other end this only get's really good once paired with Dodge but that is 15 SPP away and thus virtually unreachable in 3 games.

As I still lack Strip Ball I'm really tempted to take Wrestle on one of the tacklers for good chances at ball removal and thus pressuring the opponent more. On the other hand I prefer to use my tacklers for marking players and leaving the blitzing to my MB, Frenzy WD. So block is also a solid option as it keeps the tackler on his feet and brings me the 4th Block on ST3 player.

So my second thought is: Wrestle, Dodge and Block on Tackle Liners.
This gives me: Defensive Linemen, Mobile Tackler (Sweeper) and Offensive Lineman and Man-Marker.
So a little of everything to support a better team effort.

My second WD has to step up and finally bring in the Strip Ball as it is the last gaping hole on the normal skill-list.

[MKL]

I have to beg your pardon, El_Jairo

but your team roster looks like a quiz: there are 11 elves in a room. Two are of the same age, one is a kid, and three are NOT from Minneapolis. How many pink undies are in the room?


Seriously, I think I understand your team line-up, but I cannot be sure.
I would take +Ag on a tackler, Wrestle on the other, and Dodge on the rookie

[El_Jairo]

I have to beg your pardon, El_Jairo

but your team roster looks like a quiz: there are 11 elves in a room. Two are of the same age, one is a kid, and three are NOT from Minneapolis. How many pink undies are in the room?


Seriously, I think I understand your team line-up, but I cannot be sure.
I would take +Ag on a tackler, Wrestle on the other, and Dodge on the rookie

I'm sorry that Cyanide's team rosters are quite a mess. I tried to explain the skills, which I took from top to bottom but maybe I did a poor job so let me try again.
#1 treeman has Grab
#2 WD has MB and Frenzy
#4 Catcher has Block
#8 Liner rolled a normal skill
#9 Liner has Kick (and a Damaged Back, +1 to injury rolls)
#10 Liner has Tackle and rolled a 11
#11 Liner has Doge
#12 Liner has Tackle and rolled a normal skill
#14 Liner has Wrestle
#16 Liner has Block and Dodge

So you suggestion would be to take Dodge on the rookie #8, AG on #10 and Wrestle on #12.
I would like to hear your arguments for it so I can understand the choices better.

Keep in mind that there are only 3 regular matches left before play-offs. So I want skills that pay off right now and this might mean not taking the most ideal development path for each player but rather the skills needed for the roles the team needs.
We are currently ranked 4th but the ranking is very close with 6 teams within 6 points of each-other at the top.

Dodge on the rookie seems sensible but I need to put at least 2 and I prefer to put 3 Linemen on the LoS on defense. #8 has been put on the LoS and sure Dodge will help him survive against most teams without tackle but I'm afraid that in post season it will be a free block for a tackle player in postseason as I'm not confident he will get to the second skill fast enough. On the other hand, apart from Chaos Dwarves most teams in the top haven't developed many tacklers.

AG on the Tackler seems quite of a waste as it doesn't really help with his role of tackling. I also had a rookie liner with +AG but he died the game after. So I'm really reluctant at giving +AG to a player without dodge as I don't really see the added value of 40k TV paying off immediately, I rather have 2 normal skills on a line-elves. As for know I never really needed or wanted to throw longer than a short pass the gain in agility seems quite a situation benefit.

Wrestle on the last Tackler seems really logic as he becomes an effective ball hawk and receiver blitzer. I was advised on this forum to take Dodge on my Tacklers to make sure that they can get to their target more easily.
This does make sense as my opponent will try to mark them so they can't mark or blitz the important targets.
Furthermore like I said my MB Frenzy WD is my main blitzer and she has already reasonable odds at taking down a Blodge target. Sure the redundancy is something usefull as she will not be always on the pitch and even if she is on the pitch, MA 8 + Leap is no guarantee that she will reach the target that needs blitzing.

As I was contemplating my options it occurred to me that Wrestle is not the best option if you want to mark a receiver with this tackling player as it will be easier to knock down the marking player off the receiver.

Thanks for your advice.
Sadly I'm still not convinced on what choices I should make so if you would explain a little more on why you would make these choices it will be easier for me to understand the arguments.

[Shteve0]

I agree with the other guy.

I like dodge first skill on line elves. It works both actively and passively to protect them.

AG5 is great.

Wrackle is unparallelled for taking out blodgers.

Personally I would have taken tackle over frenzy on your MB dancer. If not a double first skill, take strip ball for them.

I'd probably go wrestle or dodge on a lineman first skill, tackle not till fourth as a utility skill, after fend. Wrestle is good for woodies as they have the pace to get up and run away afterwards. And again, productive both offence and defence.

Doubles on anyone from here, go guard (though strip ball and juggs on a wardancers would be excellent too)

[El_Jairo]

Ok, you guys have convinced me on two normal skill choices. Dodge is almost always a double win as wrestle is has limited potential in the offense as you most certainly would have to blitz to make it useful.

On the other hand I'm not sold on giving the Tackle guy AG5. I don't really see the benefit as he will never (realistically) get to the third skill (dodge) to really make it shine. It also has no real synergy with Tackle. I rather give him dodge for the reasons you have put forward.

So most likely my skill choices will look the following:
Dodge on Rookie Liner
Dodge on Tackler who rolled 11 (because dodge resembles most to AG and is general a very useful skill)
Wrestle on Tackler who rolled normal (because Wrackle is too good to pass because I will be facing blodgers in my last two games I really want to win).

PS, is it me or are there little sources about Wood Elf Tactics and development? I have searched the internet and this site multiple times but didn't really find a consolidated page which groups all tactical choices.

PS 2: I know Tackle is a staple skill for Wardancers but I took Frenzy as it brings tactical options and makes the most out of MB. This has paid off so far as the Wardancer has made 6 CAS' and 13 KO's in 8 games. Including one blitz 1 die into 2 die against which knocked out an orc blitzer and opened up the ball for us to equalize that game.
The fact that I started the team with a Treeman made it so that I really needed tackle because of my match-ups and I didn't have the second wardancer.
Developing a team in a fixed calender league is a little different (for me) that developing a team in a perpetual and TV based environment like ranked on FUMBBL. There you have a development plan set out for most players and you stick to it to obtain the optimal skill set on your team.

[Rolex]

If you say no to +AG, elves are not for you.

+1 Ag is a no brainer for any elves expecially if you don't already have 2 or 3 +1 AG.

[Chris]

In retrospect I am surprised you didn't get sidestep on a catcher for one turning with the help of the grab tree.

Ag five means tackle is now secondary. This chap becomes your go to player for elf bull****. You dodge and pick up balls on a 2+ in an enemy tackle zone. You throw quick passes on a 2+ and desperate long passes on a 4+, etc etc.

[MKL]

Since I'm called to explain my choices... this:

(...)
Ag five means tackle is now secondary. This chap becomes your go to player for elf bull****. You dodge and pick up balls on a 2+ in an enemy tackle zone. You throw quick passes on a 2+ and desperate long passes on a 4+, etc etc.

As Chris explained, that elf isn't a tackler with 40k surcharge. He's an ag5 virtuoso with a 20k surcharge.
As you explained, you aren't here to build that team: you are here to win that last games no matter what, and ag5/mv7 is ripe for crazy games, the ones you need to win that last one.

About Dodge: there's not only the LOS. Dodge is good to keep doing elvish things, while saving TRRs.
About Wrackle: you'll ned one when that blodge-sh-fend-sidestepper is going to score, because your WD isn't up to the task. And it saves TRRs.

Mind you: I'm mediocre with elves. But these are the sort of elves I hate to meet as an opponent

[babass]

I would go for:
- Dodge for the rookie
- wrestle on both tacklers with thèm no need of stripBall anymore)

[babass]

I would go for:
- Dodge for the rookie
- wrestle on both tacklers with thèm no need of stripBall anymore)

[El_Jairo]

OK, you guys convinced me: I'll take the AG and forget about the former one dying the game after, I'll let you know how it went as I'm launching my next game right now.

[El_Jairo]

ARGHH what a painful match.

First turn we kick the assassin kills my Blodge Liner, apoth can't do a thing (RR death) and we suffer another KO.

We are able to even the odds quite rapidly through KO's and by the half time we lead with the defensive TD and they have about 5 in the KO box. Guess what 4 off them get back onto the pitch.

Second half I have the ball but I can't bring it to safety and in the widezone the opposing witch elf surfs two player, both MNG. I can't get the ball loose in a good position and I end up outnumbered and I can't prevent the sore.

Two turns left to do or die. I decide to go all in but the catcher fumbles the pick-up. they flood the ball because I have sent all but 3 players deep to receive.

Luckily his wizards mistakens a line-elf for the MB Frenzy WD. She succeeds in knocking the ball loose but all in vain. They push off all players and the Witch Elf jumps up and makes the 3 2+ rolls for the winning TD.

Man how hard this was going from "ouch, this hurts a lot" to 'yes the odds are looking good" to "no this can't be happening I'm totally out of position" to "OMG not now Leaves, not now" to "maybe they fail someting,... but no"

This was the most painful defeat and in hindsight I should have secured the ball in the last drive and just go for 2 receivers deep and hope for a half miracle. Avoiding the loss was probably the most important.

Small positive point is that we made 20k winnings, just enough to buy the second catcher and limit the Journeymen to 2.

PS: I had mistaken the 11 roll as it was only 9 so I took Dodge, Dodge (tackle) and Wrestle (Tackle).

Thanks again for all your insights.

[Chris]

I happily run with elf journeymen and buy them only if they get spp's in the match. Plus someone has to stand on the front line...

A thrower is handy, I know many don't like them but they are good at throwing the ball... Wood Elves pay more a surcharge than other elves for them though.

[El_Jairo]

I happily run with elf journeymen and buy them only if they get spp's in the match. Plus someone has to stand on the front line...

A thrower is handy, I know many don't like them but they are good at throwing the ball... Wood Elves pay more a surcharge than other elves for them though.

I don't mind a journeymen or two but I rather not have them, since I like the fact that all my players are available to make any plays. Being not able to use a TRR is quite limiting for a player.

I'm not really convinced by the thrower because so far I only have thrown a short pass as longest distance. I prefer running the ball making handoffs or quick passes.

So I'm interested to hear about you take on the WE Throwers.

[Chris]

I think it is more the mindset he brings? I only ever get 1 and he starts one skill ahead of a lineman and can get leader. He gets built to collect and handle the ball, something that is hard to justify on a more specialist player and on a lineman those doubles go to other skills. He also gets leader as a cheap re-roll as I tend to use a fair few with woodies due to the 1/2 dice blocks I find myself doing with the cage leaping and so on If you are luxuriating in 12 players (normally due to inducements) he is held off the pitch so you can't possibly use the leader re-roll up before your one turn attempt at the end of a drive.