Talk Fantasy Football

Here are some suggested starting skills for LRB5 teams, to replace the older thread which is mostly LRB4 information.

I've only provided the first two skills and the first doubles roll (in italics). In LRB5, the optimal choices aren't always as clear-cut as in previous editions, so I'm sure there will be plenty of conflicting opinions. Also, I haven't mentioned anything about developing 'specialist' players, like defensive safeties, throwers for teams that don't have them, Dirty Players, and so on - these are merely meant to be recommended starting skills for typical players.

Amazons:
Linewomen: Block, Fend, Guard
Throwers: Sure Hands, Accurate, Strong Arm
Catchers: Block, Side Step, Nerves of Steel
Blitzers: Guard, Tackle, Side Step
Amazon teams should take any and all stat increases.

Chaos:
Beastmen: Block, Guard, Dodge
Chaos Warriors: Block, Claw, Dodge
Minotaurs: Claw, Juggernaut, Block
Chaos teams should take any stat increases, except +AG or +MA on the Minotaur

Chaos Dwarf:
Hobgoblins: Fend, Wrestle, Dodge
Chaos Dwarf Blockers: Guard, Mighty Blow, Claw
Bull Centaurs: Block, Break Tackle, Dodge
Minotaurs: Guard, Stand Firm, Block
Hobgoblins and Bull Centaurs should take any and all stat increases. Chaos Dwarf Blockers and Minotaurs should ignore +AG or +MA.

Dark Elf:
Linemen: Block, Dodge, Guard or Fend, Wrestle
Runners: Block, Dodge, Guard or Sure Hands, Pass, Strong Arm[/i[]
Assassins: Dodge, Block, Guard
Blitzers: Dodge, Sidestep, Guard
Witch Elves: Block, Sidestep, Mighty Blow
Dark Elves should take any and all stat increases.

Dwarf:
Blockers: Guard, Mighty Blow, Dodge
Runners: Block, Kick-Off Return, Dodge
Blitzers: Guard, Stand Firm, Dodge
Troll Slayers: Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, Side Step
Deathroller: Guard, Multiple Block, Block
Runners, Blitzers, and Troll Slayers should take any and all stat increases.
Blockers may find skills more valuable than +MA or +AG.
Deathrollers should always ignore +AG.

Elf:
Linemen: Block, Dodge, Guard or Fend, Wrestle
Throwers: Sure Hands, Accurate, Strong Arm
Catchers: Dodge, Block, Dump Off
Blitzers: Dodge, Dauntless, Guard
Elves should take any and all stat increases.

Goblin:
Goblins: Diving Tackle, Side Step, Block
Bombardiers: Catch, Side Step, Accurate
Pogoers: Sneaky Git, Side Step, Block
Looneys: Dodge, Side Step, Dirty Player
Fanatics: Grab, Mighty Blow, Block
Trolls: Guard, Stand Firm, Block
Goblins should take any and all stat increases. Secret Weapons may find it more valuable to ignore stat increases in favor of skills. Trolls should always ignore +AG.

Halfling:
Halflings: Diving Tackle, Side Step, Block
Treemen: Guard, Strong Arm, Block
Halflings should take any and all stat increases. Treemen should always ignore +AG.

High Elf:
Linemen: Block, Dodge, Guard or Fend, Wrestle
Throwers: Sure Hands, Accurate, Strong Arm
Catchers: Dodge, Block, Guard
Blitzers: Dodge, Side Step, Guard

Human:
Linemen: Block, Fend, Dodge
Catchers: Block, Side Step, Nerves of Steel
Throwers: Accurate, Block, Strong Arm
Blitzers: Guard, Tackle, Dodge
Ogres: Guard, Stand Firm, Block
Human teams should take any and all stat increases.

Khemri:
Skeletons: Fend, Wrestle, Guard
Thro-Ras: Block, Hail Mary Pass, Dodge
Blitz-Ras: Guard, Mighty Blow, Dodge
Mummies: Guard, Break Tackle, Block
Khemri teams should take any stat increases, except +AG n the Mummies.

Lizardmen:
Skinks: Side Step, Catch, Block
Saurus: Block, Break Tackle, Dodge
Kroxigors: Guard, Stand Firm, Block
Skinks should take any and all stat increases. Saurus and Kroxigors should ignore +AG.

Necromantic:
Zombies: Block, Tackle, Guard or Fend, Wrestle
Ghouls: Block, Side Step, Mighty Blow
Wights: Guard, Tackle, Dodge
Flesh Golems: Block, Guard, Dodge
Werewolves: Block, Dodge, Mighty Blow
Necromantic teams should take all stat increases, except Zombies may find skills more valuable than +AG

Norse:
Linemen: Fend, Tackle, Guard
Throwers: Sure Hands, Leader, Dodge
Runners: Dodge, Side Step, Guard
Berserkers: Guard, Stand Firm, Dodge or Mighty Blow, Piling On
Ulfwerener: Block, Stand Firm, Dodge
Snow Trolls: Mighty Blow, Guard, Block
Norse teams should take any and all stat increases, except +AG on the Snow Troll

Nurgle:
Rotters: Block, Tackle, Guard or Fend, Wrestle
Pestigors: Block, Guard, Dodge
Nurgle Warriors: Block, Claw, Dodge
Beasts of Nurgle: Guard, Stand Firm, Block
Pestigors and Nurgle Warriors should take any and all stat increases. Beasts of Nurgle should ignore +AG. Rotters may find skills more valuable than +AG or +MA.

Ogre:
Snotlings: Diving Tackle, Catch, Dirty Player
Ogres: Guard, Stand Firm, Block
Snotlings are among the few players in the game who should ignore +ST. Snotlings should always take +AG or +MA, and Ogres should take any and all stat increases.

Orc:
Linemen: Block, Tackle, Guard
Goblins: Side Step, Catch, Block
Throwers: Block, Accurate, Dodge
Black Orc Blockers: Block, Guard, Dodge
Blitzers: Guard, Mighty Blow, Dodge
Trolls: Guard, Stand Firm, Block
Orcs should take any stat increases, except Black Orc Blockers and Trolls should ignore +AG.

Skaven:
Linemen: Block, Fend, Guard or Fend, Wrestle
Throwers: Accurate, Block, Dodge
Gutter Runners: Block, Leap, Very Long Legs
Blitzers: Guard, Tackle, Claw
Rat Ogres: Guard, Break Tackle, Block (or Claw)
Skaven should take any and all stat increases, except Rat Ogres, who should ignore +AG.

Undead:
Skeletons: Block, Fend, Guard or Fend, Wrestle
Zombies: Block, Fend, Guard or Fend, Wrestle
Ghouls: Block, Side Step, Mighty Blow
Wights: Guard, Tackle, Dodge
Mummies: Guard, Stand Firm, Block
Ghouls and Wights should take any and all stat increases. Skeletons and Zombies may find skills more useful than +MA or +AG. Mummies should always ignore +AG.

Vampire:
Thralls: Block, Fend, Guard or Fend, Wrestle
Vampires: Block, Pro, Dodge (Vampires don't need doubles)
Vampire teams should take any and all stat increases.

Wood Elf:
Linemen: Block, Dodge, Guard or Fend, Wrestle
Catchers: Block, Side Step, Nerves of Steel
Throwers: Sure Hands, Accurate, Strong Arm
Wardancers: Strip Ball, Side Step, Guard
Treemen: Guard, Grab, Pro
Wood Elves should take all stat increases, except +AG on the Treeman.

DDogwood wrote: Chaos:
Beastmen: Block, Guard, Dodge
Chaos Warriors: Block, Claw, Dodge
Minotaurs: Claw, Juggernaut, Block
Chaos teams should take any stat increases, except +AG or +MA on the Minotaur

I would agree except for the last line. +MA on Minotaur should not be discounted out of hand but I would personally, consider +AV on a Warrior To be a complete waste of team value. Similarly, following your progression, +AG on a Warrior would be questionable and only recommended if you are using him as a dedicated ball handler. Otherwise, he is better putting his ST4 to use on the line and ignoring +AG.

Zombies: Block, Tackle, Guard or Fend, Wrestle
Rotters: Block, Tackle, Guard or Fend, Wrestle

Never put Wrestle on these guys. Ever.

Chaos Warriors: Block, Claw, Dodge

Guard and/or Mighty Blow before Claw always.

Chaos teams should take any stat increases, except +AG or +MA on the Minotaur

Don't take +AV on Chaos Warriors, +MA on a Minotaur is very good if he already has AV9.

Pestigors and Nurgle Warriors should take any and all stat increases. Beasts of Nurgle should ignore +AG. Rotters may find skills more valuable than +AG or +MA.

That's not right either...
Pestigors - Any and all stat increases.
Nurgle Warriors - +ST, +MA only
Rotters - +AV, +ST, +MA

DDogwood wrote:
Dwarf:
Blockers: Guard, Mighty Blow, Dodge
Runners: Block, Kick-Off Return, Dodge
Blitzers: Guard, Stand Firm, Dodge
Troll Slayers: Mighty Blow, Stand Firm, Side Step
Deathroller: Guard, Multiple Block, Block
Runners, Blitzers, and Troll Slayers should take any and all stat increases.
Blockers may find skills more valuable than +MA or +AG.
Deathrollers should always ignore +AG.

Futher skills to considers
Blockers: Grab, Stand Firm, Side Step, Diving Tackle
Runners: Leader, Frend
Blitzers: Mighty Blow, Grab
Troll Slayers: Juggernaut (this should be taken either 1st or 2nd skill)

fen wrote:

Zombies: Block, Tackle, Guard or Fend, Wrestle
Rotters: Block, Tackle, Guard or Fend, Wrestle

Never put Wrestle on these guys. Ever.

Why is that? I'm not disagreeing, I'm just interested in your reasoning.

Chaos Warriors: Block, Claw, Dodge

Guard and/or Mighty Blow before Claw always.

Guard is a regular skill for the Beastmen, so it's not really necessary to load the Chaos Warriors up with it. Mighty Blow vs. Claw is debatable, but it really depends on what teams you're likely to face.

Chaos teams should take any stat increases, except +AG or +MA on the Minotaur

Don't take +AV on Chaos Warriors, +MA on a Minotaur is very good if he already has AV9.

To be honest, I totally forgot about +AV in my list. IMO, +AV is only worthwhile on AV7 players who are worth more than 100k.

Pestigors and Nurgle Warriors should take any and all stat increases. Beasts of Nurgle should ignore +AG. Rotters may find skills more valuable than +AG or +MA.

That's not right either...
Pestigors - Any and all stat increases.
Nurgle Warriors - +ST, +MA only
Rotters - +AV, +ST, +MA

I wouldn't take +AV or +MA on a Rotter, they die too easily and the increases aren't worth the TV.

GorTex wrote: Runners: Leader
Troll Slayers: Juggernaut (this should be taken either 1st or 2nd skill)

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't take Leader on any Dwarf player (their rerolls are so cheap that it's not worth wasting a skill). Juggernaut is mainly useful in leagues where lots of players have taken Fend, but in those cases it is invaluable.

When it comes to dwarfs use a Blitzer with Fend as a roadblocker. You still have plenty of Mighty Blow and Guard on other players.

And too have Wrestle on Zombies is good as a defence and sometimes on the offence when you want a player free from tacklezones. Well worth when a zombie with wrestle standing next to a wight with gurad. Then zombie can wrestle opponent and free wight for movement.

Wardancers: Strip Ball, Tackle, Juggernaut

Linewomen: Wrestle, Fend, Grab

DDogwood wrote:

GorTex wrote: Runners: Leader
Troll Slayers: Juggernaut (this should be taken either 1st or 2nd skill)

Just my opinion, but I wouldn't take Leader on any Dwarf player (their rerolls are so cheap that it's not worth wasting a skill). Juggernaut is mainly useful in leagues where lots of players have taken Fend, but in those cases it is invaluable.

If that is all you think Juggernaut is good for, you have not used the skill, imo.

For a frenzy player, Juggernaut allows you to make that 2nd frenzy block when you normally could not do so (pow/skull--both players have block), it allows you to push players off the pitch who may think them selves safe (cancel stand firm), and it negates wrestle. I highly recommend this skill for players with frenzy (like troll slayers)

I take alot of heat for this, but in my experience, Dwarf teams tend to outpace other teams as far as TV goes. I rarely get inducements and often am giving up many 100's of gold worth of inducements. 20k for leader saves me a little in the TV department--and every little bit does count. It is much better to have 4 RR's and a leader than 5 RR's for a dwarf team.

Oh, and the reason not to take wrestle on Zombies and skeletons--speed. Just like you should not take wrestle with any dwarven players, wrestle slows down these undead players so much it takes much of the advantage of wrestle away.

Here are the teams I know best. I'd do something very different from DDogwood with all of them. Unless noted otherwise, an 11 or 12 is a stat increase.

Elf:
Linemen: Kick, Side Step, Sneaky Git. 2nd/Later: Block, Dirty Player, Dodge, Wrestle. Doubles: Guard. 10: Anything goes.
Throwers: Sure Hands, Leader. 2nd/Later: Accurate, Dodge. Doubles: Strong Arm or ignore. 10: +MA.
Catchers: Dodge, Block, Leap. 3rd/Later: Frenzy, Pass Block. Doubles: Safe Throw, Dump Off or ignore. 10: Any.
Blitzers: Dodge, Dauntless, Frenzy, Jump Up, Tackle. 3rd/Later: Diving Tackle, Fend, Shadowing, Pass Block. Doubles: Guard, Mighty Blow or ignore. 10: +AV or skill.

Human:
Linemen: Block, Dirty Player, Kick. 2nd/Later: Tackle, Fend. Doubles: Guard, Dodge, Side Step, Sneaky Git. 10: +MA.
Catchers: Block, Side Step. 2nd/Later: Jump Up, Fend. Doubles: Guard, Nerves of Steel. 10: +AV.
Throwers: Accurate, Block. 2nd/Later: Leader, Nerves of Steel. Doubles: Dodge, Strong Arm. 10: +MA.
Blitzers: Guard, Tackle. 2nd/Later: Stand Firm, Mighty Blow. Doubles: Dodge. 10: +AV or skill.
Ogres: Guard, Stand Firm. 3rd/later: Break Tackle, Juggernaut. Doubles: Block. 10: +AV or skill.

Orc:
Linemen: Block, Dirty Player. 2nd/Later: Kick, Tackle. Doubles: Guard, Sneaky Git. 10: Block or any.
Goblin (if only 1): Catch. 2nd: Sure Feet. Doubles: Nerves of Steel, Guard. 10: +MA. 12: Doubles.
Goblin (2 or more): Catch, Side Step. 2nd/Later: Diving Tackle, Jump Up. Doubles: Block, Guard, Nerves of Steel. 10: +AV or doubles.
Throwers: Block, Accurate, Kick-Off Return, Leader. Doubles: Dodge, Strong Arm. 10: Any.
Black Orc Blockers: Block, Stand Firm. 2nd/Later: Guard, Frenzy. Doubles: Side Step, Dodge. 10: Skill. 11: Skill.
Blitzers: Guard, Stand Firm, Tackle. 2nd/Later: Frenzy, Mighty Blow. Doubles: Dodge, Side Step. 10: +MA.
Trolls: Guard, Stand Firm. 3rd/Later: Grab. Doubles: Block. 10: Skill. 11: Skill.

mattgslater wrote: Elf:
Throwers: Sure Hands, Leader. 2nd/Later: Accurate, Dodge. Doubles: Strong Arm or ignore. 10: +MA.

Interesting choices to start, those are the two skills I do not give my Throwers. I use the Catchers for Ball Retrival and build the Thrower to Bomb the ball down field to them.

Throwers: Accurate, Dodge. 2nd/Later: Block, Safe Throw. Doubles: Strong Arm (ignore if +AG). 10: +MA.

DDogwood wrote:Also, I haven't mentioned anything about developing 'specialist' players, like defensive safeties,

Since Goblins are rather lacking in Positionals I think you need to look at them as two Potential Specialist Players

Goblin:
Goblins (as Blockers): Diving Tackle, Side Step, Jump Up Wrestle
Goblins (as Runners): Side Step, Sprint, Sure Feet Block
Trolls: Guard, Break Tackle, Block

DDogwood wrote:Bombardiers: Catch, Side Step, Accurate

At the moment Bombardiers have 'No Hands' so can not use the Catch Skill!

DDogwood wrote:Why is that? I'm not disagreeing, I'm just interested in your reasoning.

If your MA is > 6. Wrestle is a no-go skill.

Guard is a regular skill for the Beastmen, so it's not really necessary to load the Chaos Warriors up with it. Mighty Blow vs. Claw is debatable, but it really depends on what teams you're likely to face.

Not true on both counts, Claw is only better than MB if and only if 90% of the players in the league have AV9. Guard is important on the Chaos Warriors to assist the Beastmen, the players with ST3. I know what I'm talking about here, I have hundreds of LRB5 matches with Chaos (and Nurgle) behind me.

I wouldn't take +AV or +MA on a Rotter, they die too easily and the increases aren't worth the TV.

Just think about that for a moment would you? Seriously, read it and think again.

fen wrote:

DDogwood wrote:Why is that? I'm not disagreeing, I'm just interested in your reasoning.

If your MA is > 6. Wrestle is a no-go skill.

OK, thanks for the clarification.

Guard is a regular skill for the Beastmen, so it's not really necessary to load the Chaos Warriors up with it. Mighty Blow vs. Claw is debatable, but it really depends on what teams you're likely to face.

Not true on both counts, Claw is only better than MB if and only if 90% of the players in the league have AV9. Guard is important on the Chaos Warriors to assist the Beastmen, the players with ST3.

I don't agree with your 90% figure, but I obviously Claw is only better than Mighty Blow against AV9+. It depends more on who your Chaos Warriors are throwing blocks against, and it depends on how you're using them.

I know what I'm talking about here, I have hundreds of LRB5 matches with Chaos (and Nurgle) behind me.

I wouldn't take +AV or +MA on a Rotter, they die too easily and the increases aren't worth the TV.

Just think about that for a moment would you? Seriously, read it and think again.

I think it's possible to have different opinions without being rude about it.

As for Rotters - no, I don't think it's worth taking +AV or +MA on them. They die faster than Goblins. +AV nearly doubles their TV cost, and it increases their survivability by around 14%. Taking a skill like Block or Wrestle saves 10k on TV, has the same or greater impact on their survivability, and makes them more effective at performing actions.

Marlow wrote: Throwers: ...Doubles: Strong Arm (ignore if +AG).

You might want to consider taking Strong Arm even if you have +AG, because Strong Arm reduces the chance of fumbling on Long and Long Bomb passes, where +AG does not.

Fen wrote:If your MA is > 6. Wrestle is a no-go skill.

I'm guessing that you mean if your MA is < 6, wrestle is a no-go skill
(less than 6, not greater than 6)

GorTex wrote: You might want to consider taking Strong Arm even if you have +AG, because Strong Arm reduces the chance of fumbling on Long and Long Bomb passes, where +AG does not.

I agree you might, but I was commeting on Mattgslater suggestion and put the only reason I would ignore the Strong Arg on a Double was if I already had +AG (it propably was not well presented).