Chaos Dwarves desperately need help with High Elves

[scrollmaster]

So I have landed in a legaue with some pretty good players, which a bit nasty after being away from blood bowl since 1997, but so far I have manage to draw all I have played except the High Elves Player to whom I have lost to 3 times!

The problem is scoring, holding him when he has the ball sometimes works and sometimes doesn't but scoring always seem to fail.

Help!

Ian is a damn good player, but I fear I am going to have the same problems with any Elven team (and I am playing Dark Elves tomorrow)

If you need you can see both teams here:

http://www.irwilliams.com/ecbbl/league.php

[McDeth]

Unfortunately my company firewall won't let me access the site so i cant see the make up of the teams, but theoretically. When he'sin possession use the Bull Centaurs to get into his backfield and force him to pass or play earlier than he'd like. Keep TZ's with your CDwarfs on anything you can, and keep blocking hoping to get a few of the pitch. Also your tackle skill will rule out any dodge skills he's acquired. If you've progressed far enough to have a Minotaur then keep him in the backfield to Blitz anything who gets through. I wouldn't worry about him scoring the first TD, if you can stop him great, but in reality it's better for you take time pulverising his side so in later stages, not only does he not have enough players on the pitch to stop you but also not enough to continue scoring.
When you have the ball don't rush into scoring quickly, progress slowly upfield hopefully getting a few casualties on the way, and score late in the half. if you can do the same again the second half you'll run out a 2-1 winner ( In a perfect world of course ). the main way to win is through possession and if you have possession for 3/4 of the game you'll undoubtedly win. remember keep blocking with the CD's and i guess you've already got a few Mighty Blow and guard skills scattered about to supplement this.

Play to your strengths and not the elves.

[DoubleSkulls]

Tips on how you can beat me

Generally:

Don't rush everyone forward - my superior movement can leave most of
your players too far behind the play.

Don't use rerolls on anything that isn't a TO. If you ever get up to ~6 then you can start using them on push backs etc.

Move everyone who doesn't require die rolls first. Especially standing up your CD's. For my 2nd TD in our last game this cost you any chance of getting a draw.

When I have the ball
1) Keep at least 1 or 2 players back in your own half.
2) Cover my deep receivers before you roll any dice
3) Pressurise my players that can score - don't worry too much about the ball carrier since I can move the ball fairly easily and dodge too easily.

When you have the ball
1) Keep someone back just in case - the pass into space won me the game
2) Run a hob gob or two downfield to spread my defence

As our teams currently stand I'm reasonably well equipped to deal with your team (2x guard helps a lot) and if you'd got a bit more luck in the 1st half then you could have won.

Ian

[Sputnik]

wow. Your opponent is helping you in advance. thats nice!

But his team is nice, too.

Just an idea to Ian's comments:

I don't really like the idea of not pressurizing the ball carrier at all. If you built up a reasonable thread, your opponent MUST do something with the ball. Move it to the middle, fine for the CDs. Score, also fine for the CDs (exept a 3:0 or so!). But not threatening a ball carrier at all gives the elves plenty of time doing all sort of things....

And of course, if you are lucky...turnover is what you hope for if your opponent is forced to do things...

thus, keep an eye on the potential receivers and use your BCs since they have break tackle.

Sputnik

[DoubleSkulls]

wow. Your opponent is helping you in advance. thats nice!

After the event... and these teams probably wont meet again.

But his team is nice, too.

Thanks. 2 Guards and +ST lineelf are always good for business. And you've gotta love the Block, Dodge, Side Step combo.

[Vesticle]

I'd say you can try to restrict ball movement without necessarily putting pressure on the ball carrier. If the elf coach is decent, the worst you can give him is a 2+ backwards dodge to get away, and if you have a tackler to negate the dodge he probably picked up, he can still use a TRR if he happens to fail.

I'd say use the extra guy you get by not putting someone on the ball can be used to either help cover receivers, or to outnumber the elves on some other part of the field, and try to get them out of the game, or at least the drive. It's hard to stop a built up elf team from scoring in the first half, but if you whittle them down a bit, they'll have a hard time to stop you from scoring too, and they'll have a harder time doing either in the second half.

Also, you don't always need to pressure the ball, sometimes you wind up going too far out of your way to try that, for too little a result. If you have a guy within blitz range of the ball, that can often be threat enough, and force him to either make a move with the ball early, or risk losing it if he has an unlucky failure while taking other actions first.

Big thing, I'd say, is to be dynamic. Your opponent will try to surprise you, so you need to be prepared, and do the same thing to him. My Elves played Chaos Dwarves recently, and my good ol' bloodthirsty guys took it right to 'em, causing... I think 4 casualties in the game. Be prepared to change strategies accordingly to the situation at hand. Every strategy has a focus, and having a focus means also having a weakness. If your opponent spreads to thin, outnumber him and bash him. If he gets too close, make him pay by spreading out on offense, or circling him in on defense.

And don't give up on any play or game. I'll be the first to admit that I do that far too often in a game after a string of bad luck, and I shouldn't. It's a bad habit. Few situations or games are ever as out of reach as you think. I suffered 9 casualties in a game, and was down to 1 player on the field for the last 3 turns, and managed to delay long enough to earn a tie. Likewise, I've had my opponent score on me when I had him down to only 4 players on the field. Even if you need a 6, it's still a 17% chance of success. Even Dwarves can dodge at a 4+, and even a Halfing blocking a Black Orc Blocker will still knock him over 25% of the time, etc...

Anyway, that's all for now. I'm up too late again.

David

[Sputnik]

Sputnik wrote:

wow. Your opponent is helping you in advance. thats nice!


After the event... and these teams probably wont meet again.

Sputnik wrote:

But his team is nice, too.


Thanks. 2 Guards and +ST lineelf are always good for business. And you've gotta love the Block, Dodge, Side Step combo.

Ah, I knew I missed something about the tipps. But anyway .

And your guarding lineman can be a real pain. When you play CD and have picked up some guard skills, you think now it's time for kicking some elf asses and then you see such an ugly team coming up.

And if this combo there goes with guard (you may dream of it for a while), then... but only then..

Also, you don't always need to pressure the ball, sometimes you wind up going too far out of your way to try that, for too little a result. If you have a guy within blitz range of the ball, that can often be threat enough, and force him to either make a move with the ball early, or risk losing it if he has an unlucky failure while taking other actions first.

I generally agree but if the opponent blitzes your lonesome seeker to the ground or puts two tacklezones on him if that is enough your thread is gone for another round. So this is why I like to move two guys towards the ballcarrier..and Scrollmaster has some nice BC for that purpose. Speedy and having break tackle, this can work out nicely.

Sputnik

[scrollmaster]

into scoring quickly, progress slowly upfield

This is one thing I might be doing wrong, because I have tried to do a 2 bull run down along the sides.

guess you've already got a few Mighty Blow and guard

No, only one Guard... well two after last game.

Don't use rerolls on anything that isn't a TO

ok, sounds like a very helthy advice to me, and it sounds like I need to spread out more, but when I do your guard and S4 guys will just know my players down too easily and will create a hole themselves

And don't give up on any play or game

I can asure that's not something I do.... in fact that is probably why Ian got the second goal because I put everything into scoring to get a draw and loosing the ball was fatal and I knew it from the very beginning of that drive.

I think I need to spread out more, and make a net of TZ instead, because I always move everything up leaving the whole team in one line more or less. I simply feel odd not moving a player towards the action.

thanks for all the advice, I think that will help me a lot.... I am not getting the chance to try it out tonight as planned though, since I am feeling like shit (I just got to work, but I'll probably leave soon again)

[Marcus]

One comment I'd make is that you should always play to maximise your strengths and minimise your opponent's. You tend to play a more fast and fluid style of CD game, which unfortunately is playing into the hands of the Elves.

Try slowing the game down. Mercilessly hammer his recievers (I suggest CDs in the backfield so you can make use of block and tackle and BCs as linebackers, ready to react). Charge the fullback down if you can get a block that turn, otherwise don't worry about it. You can only ever really cover 2 out of the 3 Recievers, Line and Fullbacks so don't overstretch or they'll run around you. Keep him tied up on the line and try to blunt the run downfield.

Ideally you want to bottle in his players and leave him without room to move. Block and Tackle are your friends here, you'll be hard to knock down and you have the advantage on any block. Don't be afraid to make 1 die blocks at the end of your turn, keep him on the ground.

If that fails, watch Mike play when the new season starts up again. He's arguably the best CD coach in Britain at the moment

Marcus

[scrollmaster]

thanks, Mark. Yes I am looking forward to meeting Mike

You tend to play a more fast and fluid style of CD game, which unfortunately is playing into the hands of the Elves.

this advice seems to pop up frequently, but I like fast Dwarves

no, you are ofcourse right, runiing along with two Bulls with no back up IS a bit of a suicide mission against Elves.

[SBG]

Here's what I do :

Beat the crap out of 'em with the CD's on the line;

Force an early pass with the Hobboes rushing the passer;

Blitz the ball carriers with my Bull centaurs (2 on the pitch.)

It usually works fine. If he scores early, take your time to level the game and foul him !

Fred

[Marcus]

this advice seems to pop up frequently, but I like fast Dwarves

And I like tasty non-alcoholic beer but we can't always get what we like

You'll only get so far playing your Chaos Dwarves one way. It won't be very far if the way you play them is better played by another team.

You can play fast with your BCs, just don't break them open carrying the ball until you have a clear shot at the endzone. Use your block and tackle first to screen off and do some damage.

Marcus

[Thadrin]

And I like tasty non-alcoholic beer but we can't always get what we like

On Defence th BCs can make wicked safeties: ST4, up to 9 move with their reroll on the GFIs...ouch. I'd have a first line of Hobbos...say four.
Then a rank of Dwarfs about three squares back, and then the BCs waiting to stuff th gaps the HE may force.

On offence pound away. Drive a slow moving wedge up the middle, before letting the BC loose once you've pounded into range.

Hell, just a few ideas inspired by stuff the other folks have written.

[C-N]

Having successfully played a Chaos Dwarf team in our league last season (Hi Thadrin - I'll beat your dwarves anyday ), here are a few tips:

In defence against elves etc, I always spread my team across my half.

----x--x--x---- <- 3 Chaos Dwarfs on the LoS, evenly spaced
--------------- <- empty
--x---------x-- <- Hobbos, three spaces from LoS, two from the edge
----x--x--x---- <- Bull Centaur, CD, Bull Centaur, four spaces back
---------------- <- empty
--x---------x-- <- CDs
-------x------- <- Minotaur

This *will* leave a few Chaos Dwarfs out of the action in your first turn, but on the other hand, you will be able to close in on any break through attempt with a large portion of your team. The Minotaur is out of any danger as well, of being put in a 1-die or 2-dice-block-opponents-choice, and is probably free to pounce on any elf near the end zone. The Bulls provide great strength in their positions, as those squares are the weakest spots in your defence. Your hobbos are also most likely free to move and can catch up with most elves that have broken through or can be used to put pressure on a ball handler. If the elves attack on a specific side (ie they don't go through the middle, I usually send the hobbo on the other side into my opponents half as a possible scorer, if I manage to get my hands on the ball. If the hobbos aren't free- great! Then the opponent has used a 70K player (minimum) to tie down a 40K player... Either way, you win.

Don't expect your LoS-CDs to move anywhere, but those players they catch in their TZs are probably going to stay there.

I just saw, though, that you have two CDs with Guard. This isn't a skill-choice I'd make, since I prefer to let one of the Bulls have Guard. Sure, Break Tackle is great on them, but a ST4 Guard player is kind of scary... If you want to get maximum effect with your guard, push your CDs on the LoS together in the middle. This will leave your rear more open for attack, but on the other side, your opponent will probably leave them more alone, making it easier for you to hassle the his midfielders.

The CDs I usually progress towards Mighty Blow with Guard as choice two. On a double I ususally take Leader as the first skill to cover the Minotaur (though I'd never start a team with a minotaur!). The Minotaur wants to have Block and Piling On. This is a scary combination and good for security as well. A prone Minotaur won't attack in a hopeless situation! And, yes, he might be fouled, but that is why you need vengeful Hobbos with Dirty Player! Other good hobbo-skills include Block (duh! ), Sure Hands, Pass Block (necessary if you play with Kicking rules) and Kick (necessary as well!)

For the not so obvious skill-choices, take Sure Hands on a Bull Centaur. They are among the best scorers in the game if they actually get a hold of the ball! (ST4, good Move and easy access to Stand Firm, Break Tackle etc and they don't break easily!). And in spite of what people might tell you, an AG-upgrade on a BC is heaven sent!

On the offensive, get the ball to a hobbo or a Bull Centaur (preferably) and surround them with CDs with Tackle-TZs. The Minotaur should be left behind as a rear guard against sneaky elves trying to score an easy pass + TD.

Cheers,
--
C-N

[scrollmaster]

Great thanks, you are just in time since I play Dark Elves tonight

Guard on a Bull Centaur??? That doesn't sound like a bad idea to me, I haven't considered that at any point... it'll have to be third skill then for the block,break tackle bull

I was actually thinking Guards some lines behind Los and not up in front, so Icould use them in a more "mobile" manner.

Not having a minotaur I think I'll go for the bulls as backliners as somebody suggested.

maybe I should get a minotaur.....hmmmm.....