Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[mattgslater]

Then we should all be happy.

[Wanchor]

He could start a new account and play under a new name if he wanted to protect his good standing.

I don't think Carnis would have any issue with his reputation, but doing this would get him banned.

Really? What gives?

[mattgslater]

Yeah, it's one of the rules to FUMBBL. You're supposed to keep one lifetime account.

[SunDevil]

I know, its like arguing with a wall. The problem for me is, if there is no counterforce to your force of 'stymie is best' (in this thread) then people coming from the internet will genuinely assume your stymie build is a working mainstream build and even may try it, fail, and turn to other races . I am merely attempting to be a voice of reason on this thread, sort of like a scientist vs your preacher, really .

All hail Carnis, Protector of Internet No0bs!

Just kidding, man. I still hate that you and others think there is arguing going on here about stymie vs. slayer and which is the better strategy for everyone, all the time. We are (or should be) simply discussing a few different paths a coach can take with the team. Try them all, see what you like the best. Smeborg and others have said over and over that slayer is viable, successful and relatively easy to build with Nurgle - just that they prefer stymie because they have had success with it in their local leagues/tournaments/etc. No one has advocated coaches never build slayer Nurgle, yet some FUMMBLers have taken it on themselves to shout down the stymie coaches, call their ideas pointless, and 'protect' the internet from the very thought of not bashing with yet another team.

And it's really preacher vs. preacher anyway because all of us only have evidence backed up by our personal play experience, whether its the cult of FUMMBL or small local leagues. Implying you are the 'scienctist' here is tremendously condescending. Regardless of how many FUMNBL games you've played, your evidence is irrevokably biased toward that format, just as ALL play results are. I include mine, smeborg's, mattgslater's, everyone. Unless we all played the exact same number of games in the exact same format, we have to accept that inherent bias.

Too bad the mods can't split this thread into a Stymie Nurgle thread and a Slayer Nurgle thread.

[DiddleySquat]

Interesting discussion. I'm building a Nurgle team in the spirit of Smeborg's philosophy. Current roster after 16 games:

BoN: Stand Firm, Guard
1xWarrior: Block, Stand Firm
3xWarrior: Block
1xPestigor: Wrestle
1xPestigor: Sure Hands, Kick-Off Return
1xPestigor: +1AG, (normal skill)
1xPestigor: skilless
1xRotter: Dirty Player
4xRotter: skilless

2 notes by my skill choices and strategic consequences:
1) Guard as a 2nd skill on the BoN isn't bad, but there definitely have been times I have wished it was Break Tackle. I figured a passive Beast is better, and Break Tackle seems to be an active skill, but Break Tackle is actually much more a deterrent and a just-in-case skill, plus it gives your BoN extra mobility in case it needs to circumvent a screen.
2) Dirty Player has allowed me to remove some serious threats off the pitch. But - and I think this is the reason Smeborg does not pick it - it does focus your play on player removal, and not on optimal positioning. DP seduces you to maximize your foul assists and that is detrimental for your positioning on the field (keeping a solid formation on defense, gaining ground on offense). Also you want to 'protect' your Dirty Player, which also guides your focus away from optimal field positioning.
Now I had Block and Block+Fend Rotters, but they didn't survive last game (against Pro Elves none the less). They are cheap throw-away players anyway and I consider them skilless in the long run.

So I think I understand why Smeborg builds his team as he does (although I'm still dubious about Fend as 2nd skill on the Pests instead of Tackle). Nurgle Stymie is all about dominating by careful field positioning. Any deviation from that splits your focus and leads to bad results. At least in my case, but I'm also a lousy offensive cage player.

Then finally, my +1AG Pestigor has a normal skill up pending. He's been a great help in offense, as a hand-off receiver when the cage is under heavy pressure. So Block seemed the obvious pick. But now I'm thinking Wrestle gives him a better defensive value (slightly to the detriment of his offensive value), as a safety. So now I'm doubting again...

[Jimmy Fantastic]

DiddleySquat -
True there will be turns in matches where BT would be pretty cool to have, but in every game Guard is good for 32 turns.
With 14 players on your roster you can afford a few late in the half fouls with your DP without compromising position, or early if you have got a random cas. Try to treat the DP like an unskilled player in random matches, you only need to protect him vs clawpombers, and it's vs those players that he really earns his spot.
Give the AG4 guy Block, AG4 Blodgers are amazing ballhandlers and that is a big weakness for Nurgle.
You can always give the unskilled Pesti wrestle if you want.

[mattgslater]

I agree. There are lots of S skills that give the BoN great combo value with ST5 and Tentacles, and they're all juicy. But Guard really has to be a top-2 skill for that player unless you're either (successfully) loading up on Guard Warriors or you roll a double on the second skill. I'd strongly consider it for skill #1, though I have to say I beat a Nurgle team recently (and retired the BoN) largely because the Beast didn't have Stand Firm and I kept knocking his TZ out of position, sometimes with chainpushes so I didn't have to cope with his ST5. Instead, he (semi-)wasted the skill on Multiple Block.

As an aside, Multiple Block is better than Pass Block, but I've learned (painfully and gainfully) that any skill that ends in "Block" and doesn't start in "Block" is a vanity skill, and only worthwhile as a late pick, on an unusual player. The BON is actually a "good" candidate for Multiple Block as far as it goes, but I'd make sure I had the whole combo set (Guard, SF, BT, Grab, ideally Block) first. Otherwise, it's #2 for a Deathroller or #3 for a Treeman. Maybe #4 on a Pact Big Guy, or a Mummy, or a TG, because you have several such players and can test the waters a little at peak. Makes sense on an Ogre-team Ogre; give it to the guy with Block, and voila, 5/6 of a free action.

[Carnis]

Then finally, my +1AG Pestigor has a normal skill up pending. He's been a great help in offense, as a hand-off receiver when the cage is under heavy pressure. So Block seemed the obvious pick. But now I'm thinking Wrestle gives him a better defensive value (slightly to the detriment of his offensive value), as a safety. So now I'm doubting again...

Diddleysquat:
Imho all time best beastman allrounder died today: https://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=play ... id=7854309

I suggest you look into that as well (if you already have a ballcarrier). If you don't yet have one, take block, smeborg does that too with his ballcarrier..

*

SunDevil, unlike Smeborg, I don't actually see you making any arguments in any of your posts. Seems to me you are only posting to downplay mine, so I'll refrain from commenting any of yours from now on (though I don't think I have commented them earlier either, but just making this one comment now).

[mattgslater]

By not replying to Sundevil's ad hominem, then taking the point and remembering to breathe and reread before posting, Carnis could issue forth the best of all possible worlds, and we'd have a lot less BS per page. Jimmy, Sundevil and the rest of us can help by following suit.

It looks like our dear departed Eleanor got the +AG last. Is this true? RO, if you're still reading, would you have done it differently on an earlier +AG? Or would you still have taken PO?

I can see three philosophies:

1) Ignore the +AG and do as you would.

2) Build him as your carrier, if you don't already have one.

3) Go for a hybrid build, with Block, MB, Tackle and/or (SF or Fend).

[Smeborg]

Hi Diddley -

BREAK TACKLE: It's very good on the Beast, and if you don't take the skill early, you may never get it. I am now inclined to take Dodge as first doubles skill on the Beast (because of its combo power with B-Tackle).

DIRTY PLAYER: Your reasoning as to why I don't take the skill is correct. I will still foul when I want to, but not at the expense of position. As you realise, Rotters are cheap, self-CASing players. I prefer a generic build for them which also helps them survive a bit longer. Decay is very bad on a specialist player. For those who play Nurgle in the slayer style, I suggest D-Player as first skill on all Rotters (as first step in a generic build).

+1AG PESTIGOR: He is an excellent receiver, even if he is used in this role only as a threat. But his best use is as a ball-hunting Blitzer. I would recommend Wrestle as next normal skill. He is a potential cage-breaker already. As a late skill (say 5th), 2-Heads might be good. I had an AG5 Pestigor with Wrestle once. He died while making a 2+ dodge with re-roll...

Best of luck with your team.

[Smeborg]

DiddleySquat -
True there will be turns in matches where BT would be pretty cool to have, but in every game Guard is good for 32 turns.

I would have to disagree with you there, Jimmy. Guard is of limited use on a player who is isolated and is marked by one Lineman. This is very easy for any Nurgle opponent to achieve if the Beast does not have B-Tackle. It's one of the most obvious plays for an opponent to make.

All the best.

[RandomOracle]

It looks like our dear departed Eleanor got the +AG last. Is this true? RO, if you're still reading, would you have done it differently on an earlier +AG? Or would you still have taken PO?

She got the +AG last, and I wasn't completely sure at first whether to take it, as she had a purely killer build. I was very happy with how she turned out, though, as the +AG meant she was a mobile hitter and still able to handle the ball in a pinch.

In DiddleySquat's case, I'd be tempted to make the pestigor a ball carrier, because the current one isn't anything all that special. Of course, whether this is reasonable depends on the format of his league - in an online open league ditching the current ball carrier (or letting him die) is a good choice, but probably not something you'd want to do in a shorter league. In a very short league, wrestle might be a good option, allowing the player to be a mobile ball hunter. However, I'd prefer block more in the longer term, as the player would probably need to do some ball handling in a pinch, and I'd prefer block to keep him standing. Thus, my development choice for him in that case would probably block + tackle if he gets his third skill.

[Smeborg]

Also, is not an environment where I think such a strategy can thrive; early on, it'll be the same as any other Nurgle team (Block is Block), but when you start differentiating, you'll find that your competition mix gets heavier and heavier, which doesn't lend itself very well to CoP styles. You'll be taking too much damage, and the distribution of that damage won't be focused the way you're used to seeing it.

Though it will be different then as well, B nurgle take MB first on alL NWs in general, to speed progression, then later Block . In general this is the only part of your post that I can agree with to some degree, the team would get beaten up, NWs would reset frequently.

Carnis and Matt - I find this one of the weakest points of slayer Nurgle development (I have tried it, i.e. Warriors who go M-Blow, Claw, Block). Waiting to 31 SPPs to get Block means that Warriors are (very) easy to beat up. It also means that they cannot bully opposing players who lack Block.

All the best.

[mattgslater]

I'm mostly thinking of it as Block-MB-Claw, as opposed to Jimmy's build. Or at least MB-Block-Claw. Or Block-MB-Claw on one, Block-Guard-MB on two, and MB-Claw-Block on one. Or some variant thereon.

[Smeborg]

That's the one beauty of Smeborg's build, its simple and easy to setup. It's just a bit of a one-trick pony on the long run though, I fear.

As well as being simple and clean, the build is designed to make optimum use of SPPs, which are harder to come by (Warriors) or to retain (Rotters) than for many players on other teams. The build (and playing style) are designed to optimise what Nurgle do best, and to work against all types of team (ST, AG etc.).

All the best.