Discuss Fantasy football-style board games - GW's Blood Bowl, Impact!'s Elfball, Privateer Press' Grind, Heresy's Deathball, etc. THIS IS NOT AN NFL FANTASY FOOTBALL SITE!
narg wrote:What do you think about the Heralds so far? Do you use them a lot? Well I guess that without the big guy they would be handy all right...
By the way - is there a lot of guard on the other side? That's the kind of skill that would destroy Khorne, with lots of blocks backfiring in frenzy traps.
The Heralds are awesome, indeed outstanding, they are the blitzers of choice. I use them typically to either blitz for position, or to crowdsurf. Only when forced to by circumstances will I take the blitz with another player (typically a Bloodletter). The ability to push an opposing player 2 squares almost at will is very powerful, it gives you myriad options. Because I use the Heralds to blitz a lot (for position and surfs, not for CAS), I am very content so far without a Bloodthirster (who would obviously compete to take the blitz, and would automatically fail 1/6 of the time).
Having said that, one of the Heralds has 3 CAS in 3 games, after he got one I favoured him, the other CAS just reflect the sheer number of knockdowns he gets. I remain to be convinced that Khorne are built to be a slayer team, I think they are built to play for position, and will get adequate CAS/KOs from both surfs and from the sheer quantum of Frenzy knockdowns.
I have been playing against other rookie teams so far. I don't worry about Guard on opposing teams in the future, there is lots of Guard in my development plan. With Guard on both teams, I expect Khorne to do fine, they will just have to pick the order of their blocks with care.
Fassbinder75 wrote:I'm sure you've not cherry-picked games Smeborg, but I'd really like to see how Khorne stacks up vs Dwarves, Chaos Dwarves, Orcs or trad Chaos. Apart from the Norse, your opponents have fielded cupcake rosters.
The team is playing in a very friendly open league where they have pretty much equal chances to play every race. In my sad games against myself, Orcs and Dwarfs beat Khorne by 1 TD (2-1 and 1-0), both times winning on numbers, but with chances for Khorne in both matches. I don't know to what extent this reflects how they will perform in practice, since the psychological element was missing, what I've found in the 3 league games is that Khorne are very good at getting the opponent into difficult positions and getting "unforced errors". They can still poach the ball against a bash team when 1 or 2 men down on the field, I expect to play against such teams with the mentality that Khorne will lose on numbers, but can still get at least a draw. Against Norse, Khorne reduced them to 2 men on the pitch (vs. 11), no doubt I had good fortune, but I only recall once in the match did my opponent give me a free block which I would not have given. It looks like they are something of a bully team, when it goes well for them, it goes really well.
swilhelm73 wrote:I'd like to see how they do vs Zons.
I have a sneaking suspicion that they will do badly, but you never know. Frenzy will give them more knockdowns than a normal team would get, they will get surfs, the game against Norse suggests that they like AV7. I would expect to try and force the Zons to dodge a lot, this is not a sound strategy in itself, it is something of a lottery, but it gives a chance for the Amazon curse to come into play. I suggest Khorne would have much better command of space in this match-up.
Overhamsteren wrote:Cheers Smeborg I guess with an undeveloped team the Khorne side will have a hard time taking advantage of a quick snap into a mass of extra players and if deploying heavily to take advantage of a quick snap it could lead to a massive perfect defense/blitz backfire.
I guess it's just one of the first things I learned in bloodbowl, always deploy 2 spaces from the line of scrimmage...but sometimes it is worth reconsidering.
As for your stat increases they are pretty awesome but they are almost unfair for testing purposes. (although getting them so early does of course hurt a bit on the basic skills' front)
I don't see Khorne getting a massive Quick Snap advantage against a good defensive set-up, 1 player (especially one with Guard) is enough to create a Frenzy trap. Quick snap will just enable Khorne to deal with the LoS better (more blocks and perhaps some chain-pushes). But I am not a chain-push expert yet, no doubt I will be soon, let's see what happens!
I did consider ignoring doubles and stat increases on the team (for playtesting purposes), but that in itself is artificial, I prefer to make the best decisions for the team, I think that's the best test, even though it's a sample of one. You're right, a TV130 team without Block, Dodge, Guard and S-Hands is not without its challenges. At least with 2 strength increases, the need for Guard is somewhat relieved.
Ive really enjoyed your thoughts on the Khorne team, so much so you've sold the team to me!!
Ive decided to take them into my league (Blood & Snot) for the next season starting on Saturday. Its a developed league and most teams I will be going up against will be TV 1900 or higher.
I know I might be biting off more than I can chew, but I like a challenge. I've been playing as Vampires for the last 3 seasons and finished top of my division twice (out of 8 experienced coaches). Hopefully Khorne wont be too tough to master! I'm relying on the huge inducements and my opponent's inexperience against Khorne to carry me through...
I'm also taking Khorne in the next Fun League season which starts on Saturday. I've manged to play a few test games against the AI with an adapted Nurgle roster. It's not 100% accurate, but it was reasonably close.
The trouble with the AI is that it's awful at BB (even worse than me!). It has absolutely no idea what a frenzy trap is. I played against Wood Elves, Undead and Amazons and quite frankly the AI sucked. It basically allowed me to move block assists where ever I wanted them and then I bashed him into the back of beyond with a multitude of frenzy blocks. I didn't cause a huge amount of CAS, mostly KO's and surfs. At one point against the amazons I opened up a huge hole in the defense line with frenzy blocks (started off with a herald blitz) and a pitfighter trundled through for the score. I quite literally could have driven a Sherman through, the hole was so big. However, I didn't have it all my own way. I had quite a few skulls and a couple of instances where I didn't position correctly and was forced into a 1d second frenzy block. Also I rolled triple skulls on one herald blitz against a wood elf catcher.
Obviously I don't hold too much faith in this because I was only playing against the AI. A good player would never have let me do what I did. He would have limited my blocking options and forced me into unfavourable blocks. However, I must say that, given the right situation and opponent, the number of frenzy blocks that can be manufactured is obscene!
Ive really enjoyed your thoughts on the Khorne team, so much so you've sold the team to me!!
Ive decided to take them into my league (Blood & Snot) for the next season starting on Saturday. Its a developed league and most teams I will be going up against will be TV 1900 or higher.
I know I might be biting off more than I can chew, but I like a challenge. I've been playing as Vampires for the last 3 seasons and finished top of my division twice (out of 8 experienced coaches). Hopefully Khorne wont be too tough to master! I'm relying on the huge inducements and my opponent's inexperience against Khorne to carry me through...
Hi, Moronik, thanks for your kind words. I haven't given much thought to inducements, but it occurs to me that the Bloodthirster is an excellent inducement at high TV difference (260,000 with M-Blow, no disadvantage as he has Loner already). Extra RRs (or the Chef) will also be disproportionately valuable, I think.
Cyanide has not many stars implemented, so the Khorne team only has two. I'd ask your league commissioners to add the other 4 that you should get. If nothing else,just take the Pact stars.
Cyanide has not many stars implemented, so the Khorne team only has two. I'd ask your league commissioners to add the other 4 that you should get. If nothing else,just take the Pact stars.
If I remember correctly, Cyanide have listed Morg and Grashnak.
That means, potentially, that Borak is not an option.
I'd probably go with Max Spleenripper and Lewdgrip Whiparm as two obvious choices. Which leaves 2 more.
Looking at what Chaos, Pact, and nurgle get, you could add Brick+Grotty as another option... though I'd almost be tempted to add some others for an alternative - maybe someone like Wilhelm Chaney (some more frenzy!) or maybe even one of the dark elf stars, as they're about as Khorne fluffy as the rest of the team
Reason:''
Stunty Cup: NAFC 2014, WISB IV Most TDs: Cambridge Doubles 2011, Carrot Crunch VI, Boudica Bowl Wooden Spoon: STABB Cup 2
There are plenty of inducement choices without Stars: the Wizard, the Chef, the Health Care package, and don't forget Merc Linos with Wrestle or Block ought to be disproportionately valuable for this team (it largely negates the downside of their Frenzy).
Looks like a severe stress test for the team may be coming up on Thursday. I will be facing a rookie Khemri team probably with Masterchef. Could be "interesting"...
A player with Grab might be very useful early on (for chain-pushes on the LoS, leading to more turn 1 blocks, better choice in line-breaks and potential turn 1 surprise crowd-surfs). But as usual, Bloodletter development is over-worked.
I have, in theory at least, a one-turn-scorer in the form of the MA7 Bloodletter. This could be re-inforced with Sprint/S-Feet on him and Grab on another Bloodletter. But I am not sure it would be worth it, I suspect it will be very rare for a RR to be left by turn 8 or 16, and there are myriad better skills in general play. But it would be interesting, as surely the bash teams will try to grind Khorne 2-1.
The prize will go, I suspect, to the coach who works out a harmonious development plan for the Bloodletters. That is the key.
A result that will please SunDevil: I lost 0-1 to rookie Khemri (also lost the CAS 0-2). [My opponent is skilled with Undead, having just won our regular league season with them, well ahead of the other teams.]
Having exactly 300,000 to spend on inducements, my opponent wisely took the Chef as planned, which was the key to his victory, especially in the first half (he won 2 RR, this left me with just 1 RR + Leader, no Block/Dodge/S-Hands).
I won the kick-off, elected to receive, all went well on turn 1, I moved 3 Receivers into scoring position, my opponent then marked me up (but he had to leave one Receiver unmarked). Facing a lot of TG blocks, especially against my AV7 players, I chose to attempt a simple score on turn 2 (GFI, hand-off, GFI, 77% chance) with good options if the ball spilled. The worst result followed as I failed the first GFI (1,1), blowing a precious RR in the process. Having "deliberately" spilled the ball near the sideline gave me some advantage, as my opponent had to take care not to get surfed. The predictable scrum ensued, I was unable to get at the ball, it kept scattering favourably for the Khemri, even when thrown by the crowd. The MA7 Bloodletter Runner got crippled on turn 4 (Niggle, Regen failed), a couple of KOs followed, I played most of the half with 8 players v. 10 (I got a KO too). I sacked the Thro-Ras at least twice, to no avail, also pushed players onto the ball several times to try and free it, this also failed. Half-time score: 0-0. I was lucky, both KOd players recovered (as did my opponent's).
The second half started better, I only lost 1 RR to the Chef, and recovered it from the kick-off table. I sacked the ball carriers 3 or 4 times, also pushed players onto the ball multiple times, however all the ball scatters (say 6 or 7) were favourable to my opponent. Lacking Dodge made life hard, even with 4 RR I soon had none left (most were used for block dice on blitzes). Although at the start of turn 15, the ball was still on the ground on the LoS, my opponent managed to pick it up with a Blitz-Ra and scoot it in on turn 16 with only one GFI required. He failed his first pick-up, so the match came down to a 50/50 roll on the RR. Played the second half down on numbers by 2 or 3. Got my only SPP of the match with a turn 16 Pass Completion (thanks to another RR from the kick-off table, I had +2 FAME).
A dour match, I was exhausted at the end of it. Perhaps the weakest point in the Khorne team is their inability to get out of contact against a stronger team, especially when things are going badly (e.g. RR used early in the turn). Dodge ought to help quite a bit. The Chef is an outstanding inducement against Khorne, perhaps the best. The two ST4 players were very useful, but they badly need Block (for example I had lots of naked 1-die block opportunities with them against Tomb Guardians). As usual with Khorne, I had multiple blitzing options, including this time with Pit Fighters, the blitzes tended to work, I just couldn't get at the ball. While my opponent got 2 CAS and 4 KOs, I got only 1 KO in the match, this was partly a result of TG blocking and numerical superiority, partly just Nuffle. The result was something of a toin coss, I had just the one scoring chance at 77% (it failed), my opponent also had just one scoring chance (at 73%), it worked. Following the turn 2 spill, I never regained control of the game.
I won an undeserved 80,000 gold pieces thanks to my FAME, allowing me to replace the crippled MA7 Bloodletter (I will miss him sorely). The MVP fell on a Pit Fighter, giving me Guard (!), which should be handy (still no Block!). I have 30,000 in treasury, I will give serious consideration to buying 1AC+1CL immediately, given the importance of RRs to this team. Depending on the next few games, I need to start thinking about a 4th RR, this is a dynamic team, not a quiet one, this means RRs are needed in spades. This surely has implications as to whether the team can reasonably afford a Bloodthirster. I will also give consideration to stopping at a 13-player roster. The team now is:
2 Heralds (one with +1ST)
4 Bloodletters (one with +1ST)
6 Pit Fighters (one with Leader, one with Guard)
3 RR, 3 FF, Apoth, TV130
(although getting them so early does of course hurt a bit on the basic skills' front)
