All about Dark Elves

[mattgslater]

Unfortunately, no. I think it really matters what you're playing for.

Juggernaut as your only skill is an ersatz Block skill for purposes of making a blitz only, but it's strictly a short-term answer (or an alternative to allow for Wrestle). It's one of two ready counters to a common bash-team skill, it's useful for getting fullbacks and safeties out of the way, and it improves your odds if you're trying to crowd-push.

Mighty Blow as your only skill is useful because, so long as you have TRRs or the Block skill it will double the rate of your players' SPP development for blocking. It's also very good in multiples, as it can help build player advantage. But just one instance has little value except as an SPP accelerant.

So what I say is:

1) If you have the ability to have more than one MB player with whom you tend to attack your opponent's soft spots, you will find your opponents frequently suffering a downgrade in player quality or (even worse) quantity. DEs are well positioned to capitalize on it. This itself is not worth going for unless you have lots of S access and no especial need for lots of Block or Guard (Orcs, CDs, but not Chaos or Dwarfs), but it really is a nice bonus when it happens and should be considered.
2) In a longer league, early MB is a team-builder par excellence. This is what MB is for, primarily.
3) MB is better against speed and not as good against bash. DE are kind of like Humans, in that they're heavier than speed teams, so in a speed-intensive format MB is big.
4) Otherwise, Juggy on a Witch is great!

So if it's your guy's first skill, or if you get doubles on a few guys, or if it's your third skill in a speedy perpetual league on a hunter, MB is just awesome. Otherwise, Juggernaut wins on utility.

[s031720]

Good points.

Now, to get a change of pace, Ive updated the text about how to make 1 turn touchdowns with DE.

[SillySod]

With only a one or two mighty blow players you can dramaticly increase your damage rates. Just make sure that that player is doing all of the blitzing, dont make sub-optimal blitzes just to try and cause more cas but definately try to place the single MB player so they'll be the one making the blitz. Witches are perfect for your one or two mighty blow because they're so much more likely to get a knockdown (due to frenzy).

Juggernaught is also nice on them because it combos so well with frenzy, turning the blocks into pushes is useful for surfing and being able to ignore standfirm helps keep the sidelines clear. If you do take juggernaught then dont fall into the trap of not taking block too. Remember that you will need block to protect yourself and help you make normal blocks, also note that with block and juggernaught you can use the skullpow (both down) result to knock down a wrestler and cause them damage.

Personally I'd choose mighty blow first but both definately have their merits.

[Jural]

The only other thing I have to repeat from my earlier posts is this:

There is nothing wrong with Juggernaut. It's a good doubles pick for a Witch Elf. I just think Mighty Blow is better. There's certainly room to disagree on this point, right?

Certainly Juggernaut and Mighty Blow are 1 and 2 on the Doubles List, surpassing more standard choices (for other players) like Guard, Leader, Nerves of Steel, Stand Firm, or Piling On.

Now a more difficult question, if Witch Elves could get mutations, which one would be best?

[DoubleSkulls]

just one instance has little value except as an SPP accelerant.

I think you are probably understating the case, because you get more value from your first MB that subsequent ones - especially with dedicated blitzer types like witches. Witch Elves, once they've block, are generally the primary users of a Blitz action for the team. If that's 10 blitz actions in a game - someone else's number from earlier in the thread - and given that you can pick the target of your blitz - that means a big difference to the performance of the team.

Generally speaking, with two hits, this witch as about a 75% chance of knocking down someone with block or dodge, and 90% chance if they've got no skills. That's quite a lot of extra armour rolls so a lot more value from MB.

[s031720]

Jural:

Well Claw on the assassin would be a given.

On the WE I think that most of the mutations would be good, but id probably go with either foul apperance to increase saftey, vll to get safer leaps or horns to get better blitzing capabilities. Probably horns for me. And it would be cool fluffwise aswell.

[Jural]

I was torn between very long legs and horns personally. But I think horns is the clear winner.

[PubBowler]

Well Claw on the assassin would be a given.

Not sure it would stack from a rules point of view, MB doesn't for example.

[Nichren]

Claw would have some use on blocking >AV8 though. Would actually round out the assassin nicely against both AV7 (stab) and >AV8 (block/claw).

[s031720]

Jural:
Ah, true that.

Other nice combos for the assassin:

Prehensive tail + Diving Tackle (if they are acumulative)

Disturbing Presence/VLL/Extra Arm + Pass Block

[Ullis]

Claw / Claws (Mutation)
A player with this skill is blessed with a huge crab like claw or razor sharp talons that make armour useless. When an opponent is Knocked Down by this player during a block, any Armour roll of 8 or more after modifications automatically breaks armour.

This player may attack an opponent with their stabbing attack instead of throwing a block at them.

No synergies there.

[PubBowler]

Prehensive tail + Diving Tackle (if they are acumulative)

They are.

[s031720]

Very nice then. Elves dodging on 5+. Shadowing would seem to be a waste on this player though, since he wold force a reroll that often.

DT, PTail, and Tackle would be great for any team with Mutations access, such as Chaos.

[mattgslater]

PT+Shadowing+SS on a Wardancer!

[AK_Dave]

If I could put a mutation on a DE team, it'd be Horns on the Witch. Modelled as spikes on the bra, of course.

MB vs Jugs, a different thought:

Block/Jugs on a Witch and I'm happy if she never gets another SPP. Let her crowdpush all day, deliver for the team, and hope she never rolls a MVP. She would be perfect frozen in time. Well, maybe I'd want her to get 1-2 more skills but not as much as a 3rd or 4th skill on a Blitzer or Runner.

Same with Block/MB. But with MB, her casualties will be on-field rather than off, so she'll take credit for the CAS and eventually build more skills. Then I'll have to fire her for being too expensive as soon as her replacement starts getting skills.

Its very different with Blitzers. The synergy with Frenzy isn't there and I typically don't consider Frenzy on a Blitzer because I already have Witches who get it stock. So Jugs goes way down on the desirable list for doubles skills on a Blitzer. And I have more of them, so if I did get a wild hair about developing a Frenzy/Jugs Blodging Blitzer (3 skills minimum) he has 3 more Blitzers in an optimal lineup to help him. So with only 2 Witches available, rotating them means that I'll often have one developed and one rookie and as the rookie skills up the developed Witch gets replaced with another rookie.

It might make a difference if the Witch had ST+1 already. Then the synergy on a Witch, Blodging or not, is that she will rarely be making 1D hits (never, if I can help it) so I'd take MB. Befor Block, if possible. ST4 is big protection for an otherwise rookie Witch. MB helps her get those other skills I'd also want on her.

It might make a difference if this was the 1st or 4th skill roll on a Witch. First roll doubles, only Witch on the team, I'll probably give her MB. Just because it helps her build SPP faster. But 4th roll, she already has Block/SS and maybe Leap? I might consider Strip Ball or NOS instead of Jugs, but probably wouldn't be thinking Mighty Blow at that point anyways.

Like Jural said, on a Witch it is MB and Jugs that sift to the top of the heap in a hurry. Final selection is more about personal preference, tactics, and synergy with other players on the team than anything else.

I do think that MB and Guard are staple items, while Jugs is more of a top shelf luxury item. It can be real nice in the right situation, but should be considered optional even though you might want it out of personal preference.