Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[Porkus_Maximus]

Would any of you ever decide to cut a beast of nurgle, assuming you had the cash available to replace him?

My latest nurgle team is struggling to win games at the moment, mostly getting draws. I know it's bad form to complain about your luck so much, but I genuinely feel my nurgle teams are jinxed as my opponents always seem to find a way to score on turn 8/16 TD. And I don't mean they pull off a TD that has 30-40% chance of success, we're talking TDs with odds of 5-10% chance of success happening on a fairly regular basis. And of course by the same token, I'll consistently fail actions with 70%+ chance of success, EG; Having a completely clear run of the end zone only to fail 3 sure hands pick ups and have the ball scatter onto an opponents player who rolls a 6 to catch while surrounded by all my disturbing presence players, and then runs off with the ball forcing a stalemate.

ANYWAY, my roster is as follows;

Beast - break tackle, pro, stand firm, grab
Warrior x3 - block, stand firm
warrior - 5spp rookie, hasn't skilled up in 25+ games
pestigor x3 - wrestle, fend (all of them between 3-6spp from their next skill)
pestigor - sure hands, block, kick off return
rotter x4 - rookies
RRs - 3
FF - 9
TV - 1750

Part of the problem is that the environment they play in matches teams by their team value, and a lot of people try to trim their teams down to be as efficient as possible. 1-2 team re-rolls +leader, 11 players without a bench etc. Such teams are vulnerable to casualties but my team isn't exactly built to cause them*, and I'm often faced with teams who have at least 2 developed killers, possibly more. In such an environment having over 200 TV on a single player is quite a burden especially if he should be neutralised early in the game for one reason or another, so I'm contemplating cutting him and trying to re-skill a replacement who will (hopefully) develop up to 16spp, 31spp maximum. The reason my beast has gotten so many SPP is that he acquired 5 MVP in his first 10 games and although I rarely block with him he averages at least 1 casualty per game. I'd never suggest for a moment that he isn't useful but I'm not sure if he's useful enough to justify his TV cost. Funnily enough when he reached 51spp he skilled up with 2 other players. The player before him rolled a double and the player after him rolled double, but he rolled a regular skill. I was kicking myself very hard for not rolling the skills in a different order.

*Although in my last 2 games versus chaos I caused 14 casualties, 8 and 6 respectively.

[mattgslater]

In your format, you need all the good Mighty Blow players you can get. When this guy improves, get him Guard again.

Generally, RRs and bench you'll use are worth more than their weight in inducements. Take advantage of your league-mates' mistakes.

[Lunchab1es]

In your format, you need all the good Mighty Blow players you can get. When this guy improves, get him Guard again.

Generally, RRs and bench you'll use are worth more than their weight in inducements. Take advantage of your league-mates' mistakes.

I believe the scenario he is describing here, is Cyanide MM. Ergo, taking advantage of what would normally be mistakes in a league (such as a short bench of 11) won't directly benefit you in the long run.

Porkus, I would keep the Beast as it has a very ideal skill set (having rolled a double), although I would have taken Guard instead of Grab. Overall, your list seems to be coming together in Smeborg's own image (which is to say, great) and I would keep on truckin'. That is, unless you find the Beast is underperforming with that skillset? I would strongly caution against firing it though, as I had a leveled up beast who died (to a thrown rock on the turn 1 kick-off, no less) and I missed his skills alot (though he had only break tackle and standfirm).

Keep us appraised of your progress!

[Carnis]

I'd sack him if it felt like he isnt pulling his weight. What is he achieving in the games? I guess MM is tougher on the TV than most setups, personally I can't see myself ever picking pro on a beast, but - I know Smeborg advices it .

The biggest trouble I've had against "stymie" teams are stashman's fend/guard-spamming AV9 teams. I honestly say a lot of killers will *not* be ready to face fend spamming NWs (dodge doubles), whilst they will pretty regularily cut through Block/SF (by using RRs & MB/PO/Claws). The fend spamming NWs are both mobile, unkillable and supremely annoying . SF.. I use it with my chaos dwarves, but only after Guard/MB and some blockers with PO as skill #3.

Here's an example of a pretty bloated fend/guard spam team, that I think would contribute to stymie-style coaching..

http://fumbbl.com/FUMBBL.php?page=team& ... _id=630229

[mattgslater]

Ah, I see. So you're never looking at inducement value. Okay, yeah, you want to run kind of minimal. Hard to see Nurgle doing too well in that environment given the high cost of their Power 9 and TRRs, but if you can make it work, that's awesome.

[Porkus_Maximus]

Yeah it's in one of BB:LE MM league. The team sits at a not-so-spectacular record of 10-10-10. A bunch of losses and draws happened due to either game crashes or bugs/exploits EG. Disturbing presence not applying properly, opponents making long passes during a blizzard, opponents abusing an interface exploit to freeze the game indefinitely until I quit, opponents disconnecting in a way which does not record the game etc. I'm sure I'm painting quite a positive image of Cyanide's Blood Bowl online experience. I'd estimate their "actual" record to be closer to 13-12-5, far more acceptable for my ego.

Yeah inducements aren't really a concern, if I try and get a game at off-peak hours I might end up getting matched 200tv up or down but you'll rarely see more than 50k being given away in inducements. In terms of the beast's contribution he's pretty hit and miss, which is probably to be expected. In 2 games against chaos he personally managed to seriously injure 2 chaos warriors, 2 beastmen and kill a 3rd. Then in a game versus woodelves he failed really stupid for the first 3 turns, managed to move next to both wardancers and the ball carrying catcher on turn 4, but then all 3 escaped his tentacles and ran off. In fairness I can't blame the beast for my opponents dice, but on turn 5 he failed really stupid, passed with pro, then promptly failed a 2+ break tackle. And died. Thankfully regen saved the day but it was definitely not his best game.

Edit: I just started a game and my beast manages to get a broken neck on turn 1, regen fails. 230 TV down the toilet in a nurgle mirror match. Not cool.

[Creamster]

Yeah it's in one of BB:LE MM league. The team sits at a not-so-spectacular record of 10-10-10. A bunch of losses and draws happened due to either game crashes or bugs/exploits EG. Disturbing presence not applying properly, opponents making long passes during a blizzard, opponents abusing an interface exploit to freeze the game indefinitely until I quit, opponents disconnecting in a way which does not record the game etc. I'm sure I'm painting quite a positive image of Cyanide's Blood Bowl online experience. I'd estimate their "actual" record to be closer to 13-12-5, far more acceptable for my ego.

I am surpised you have faced soo many issues (I know the dice cheat was around for a bit, but I dont think I ever played a person who used it). I have played a lot of games online now and have not seen this disconnect that cheat people use when they are losing.

With slow players the enemy is going to be getting turn 16 TD's and it will feel like the game is going against you but you only remember the things going against you. I have saved my bacon loads of times going for a last turn blitz with a pest hoping for a star and would re-roll if it was only a push and this has worked. The only thing you can do if mark up and make him throw more dice then you. Even dodging warriors away into blocking positions is viable if you can stop them.

Regarding your team I feel you need more guard. At TV 1750 there are loads of guard around and you will not be throwing 2 dice (or even 1) vs his guys. Guard evens the playing field. Forgive me with the westle fend combo on the pests (i haven't seen the post) but whats the point? It is an interesting idea but do all 3 pests need to have this? (rotters can do the same but a lot cheaper) - I find Pests are your scorers and blitzers. I think Fend and Sure-Hands or westle and tackle would be a better mix. Also SF and block on the warriors seems a point pointless without guard.

[Porkus_Maximus]

The vast majority of disconnection exploits appear to be fixed but at least one appears to remain. Usually the match report will update to the server and show one player or the other has disconnected, giving their opponent a win via concession. However it seems a few people have figured out how to consistently re-create a "disconnection between players", which gives a void result. I believe some players have also figured out a way to have the "connection interrupted" timer loop indefinitely, freezing the game until their opponent quits out of frustration.

As for the skill selection;

You said it yourself the pestigors are blitzers and wrestle offers the best odds of bringing a player down, although obviously without injury. I am specifically trying out the skill combinations that Smeborg advocates for his stymie style, hence stand firm as a second skill on warriors, hence wrestle and fend on pestigors. Fend is extremely useful for stymieing your opponent and also gives the pestigors extra protection from piling on/frenzy, since your opponent will be gunning for them. Assuming they reach a third skill they take tackle and possibly strip ball or two heads (or a combination) on a 4th, by having 3 pestigors developing the same way I don't have to rely on any single player to do a job and I don't have to deal with the problems of that player being neutralised. On a team like chaos where you have 6-7 beastmen on the pitch at any one time (plus potential substitutes) I think you can afford to specialise them a little bit, often developing them in pairs. With 4 pesitgors I feel the only one that can afford to specialise is the ball carrier.

EDIT:

With slow players the enemy is going to be getting turn 16 TD's and it will feel like the game is going against you but you only remember the things going against you.

I am well aware of perceptual bias which is why I always make sure to avoid it and I am very aware of when things are going in my favour. One particular thing I've noticed with my games recently is that I often roll a lot of 6s on trivial rolls. Need to dodge on a 2 or 3+? Roll a 6. Need to make a GFI? Roll a 6. Need to pick up the ball on a 3+? Roll a 6. Need to injure a -AV snotling with a niggling injury? Double 6 on armour, double 6 on injury. When I talk about having bad luck I'm not necessarily talking about rolling nothing but 1s and skulls, as using a match analyser shows the frequency of dice rolls between myself and my opponent is often equal over the course of the game. The big difference is the critical rolls. I fail A LOT of critical ball handling rolls, specifically when making a turn 4-5 hand-off on a 3+ with re-roll. I obviously notice this roll the most because I will only attempt it once, MAYBE twice in a whole game.

When you combine my consistent failing of "easy" (2-3+) critical rolls with my opponents consistent success of "difficult" (5-6+) critical rolls, you end up for some very frustrating situations. Consistency is my primary issue; I full expect to flub a bunch of ball handling rolls in maybe 1 in 6 games. But 1/3 games? Every other game? That's when the vein in my temple beings to throb.

[mattgslater]

The vast majority of disconnection exploits appear to be fixed but at least one appears to remain. Usually the match report will update to the server and show one player or the other has disconnected, giving their opponent a win via concession. However it seems a few people have figured out how to consistently re-create a "disconnection between players", which gives a void result. I believe some players have also figured out a way to have the "connection interrupted" timer loop indefinitely, freezing the game until their opponent quits out of frustration.

Wow. I guess this game does bring out the worst in people.

When you combine my consistent failing of "easy" (2-3+) critical rolls with my opponents consistent success of "difficult" (5-6+) critical rolls, you end up for some very frustrating situations. Consistency is ...

... the hobgoblin of little coaches. You should consider it Nuffle's way of bestowing an honor upon you.

[Smeborg]

I'd sack him if it felt like he isnt pulling his weight. What is he achieving in the games? I guess MM is tougher on the TV than most setups, personally I can't see myself ever picking pro on a beast, but - I know Smeborg advices it .

I have done well with Pro on the Beast in the past. However, I would probably take Dodge on a Beast who already has Break Tackle as his first skill. If the first skill is Stand Firm, then the orthodox Block would be the doubles choice.

All the best.

[Porkus_Maximus]

You should consider it Nuffle's way of bestowing an honor upon you.

Yes, having a team that consistently fails the most basic actions is an honour and a privilege. Normally I laugh such games off but when they become the status-quo they loose their charm pretty fast. Lets take my most recent game as an example;

Pretty average dice between myself and my opponent, we both get our fair share of skulls, pushes, armour breaks etc. although I get particularly lucky when I badly hurt an orc blitzer with a 6+6 on armour and 6+6 on injury. My opponent seems to have taken every stat and doubles roll Nuffle has offered him, which has given him a very unique and personalised team but it's also bloated and lacks any of the fundamental skills like guard, stand firm, mighty blow etc. Because of this I'm able to out-block him and turn the ball over easily going 1-0 up at half time, ready to receive. Fast forward to turn 11 and my opponent gets tired of tactics or strategy, those are obviously for suckers. He blitzes out of the grasp of my beast, rolls a 5+, 5+, 4+ string of dodges and hits my ball carrier on 1 dice, the ball scatters across multiple players until it lands on an orc who catches on a 4+ (should have been 6+ but disturbing presence was not applied due to a bug with the game) who then starts to run off with it. My safety pestigor blitzes him and rolls... quad skulls and stuns himself. I can't blitz him again but I can get a TZ on him with 1 GFI, which of course I roll snake-eyes on and promptly KO myself. He scores on turn 13 leaving me turns 14-16 to score. I push hard up the wide zone, one pesitgor is within scoring range and open. 3+ hand-off with reroll required for the win. I think you can guess what happened. SSDD.

[number6]

The Minotaur is unreliable. Just tag it with a Rotter and watch as he often times messes up a 2dice block vs. your fodder. You can always journeyman Rotters as you save coin for more rerolls and Pestigors.

This is something I would not do - With the mino you need to move players one square away from him. Force the blitz or he has to move on a 4+.

I'll second this *unless* leaving the Minotaur unmarked gives him a productive Blitz. Minotaurs are easily deactivated by knocking them over (which runs the risk of focusing on them too much) or by drawing them away from the play. But if you have a choice between marking him with a rotter of giving him a useful blitz that'll help bring the Big Guy back into the play the choice should be obvious.

I was generalizing. By "tagging"... maybe there is a specific BB version / semantics, but it is about using a Rotter to keep the Minotaur form being effective. This imo means being 1 square away or being in base contact. Either way the Rotter is the only thing the Minotaur is dealing with. The Minotaur should have no opportunities beyond wrecking one of your crappy linemen.
Against a CD team with no Bull Centaurs, it is an even easier sacrifice to warrant.

If you are lucky you might replace that Rotter by the end of the game with a kill Go for the Hobgobs

[duttydave]

I played my first game last night against the Chaos Dwarfs. It ended in a 0-0 draw. My first observation is that Decay is rough. One Rotter was killed outright (first roll was BH the second RIP) and I have one -1 AV (MNG).

The first half was rough for me. My opponent was blitzing or blocking with the Minotaur (sometimes on the first action of his turn!!!) and it never misbehaved. It caused havoc for my defense. Towards the end of the half I was down to seven players due to one injury and three Kos. However, Foul Appearance saved the day for me and was largely responsible for preventing the CDs from scoring. On one turn he used a Blocker to make a 1D block on a Warrior to clear a path. He Re-Rolled the 1 for the Foul Appearance roll and then rolled a Skull for the Block. I had nine players for the second half but couldn’t make enough progress to score. I had used my re-rolls by turn 3 and this made me be a bit more cautious than I would have liked. The good news is that my Rotter with Block caused a CAS and my Pestigor got a Completion Point. I also received 120K in winnings due to our Leagues first game being ‘double winnings’.

My team is now 4 Rotters (one is MNG -1AV), 4 Warriors, the Beast, a Pestigor and 2 Re-Rolls. I have FF of 1 and a current TV of 950. My next match is against a Necromantic Team with a TV of 150 including 2 Wights, 2 Weres, 2 Ghouls, 1 FG and the rest Zombies (one Zombie and one Were has Block). He has 3 RR.

I’m undecided as to what to do with the 120k. Should I?
Buy a Pestigor and a Rotter
Buy a Pestigor and bank 40k
Buy nothing and save for a Re-Roll
Buy Three Rotters

I am tending towards buying a Pest and a Rotter. Furthermore, should I fire the -1AV Rotter or keep him until he can be replaced?

[Demagoge]

I´d be tempted to buy the pestigor. Your team will be much better with the second pestigor. Save the rest for your third and after that for a re-roll.

[DiddleySquat]

I'd buy a Pestigor and bank the rest too. I wouldn't buy Rotters until you have bought all the rest (all Pestigors and 3 or 4 rerolls) and want to flesh out your bench.