Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[Smeborg]

WHO SHOULD TAKE GUARD ON THE NURGLE TEAM?
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I believe Guard is a useful skill on the Nurgle team, however, I do not advocate it as first or second skill pick (except on Rotters who roll a doubles). I also find it a useful middling skill on the Beast (say 3rd or 4th normal skill). Having said that, if a Beast has Block, Grab may suit it better than Guard.

I am inclining towards the view that perhaps the Warriors should not take Guard at all. This is because I find the prospect of a 4-skill Warrior with Block/S-Firm/Tentacles/Grab rather enticing. Therefore, perhaps, if as the team matures it finds itself short of Guard, the Pestigors might be better candidates for the skill than the Warriors? The team seems to like relatively mobile Guard (it works well on the Rotters when available).

Has anyone out there tried this or something similar?

[Smeborg]

EQUIVALENCE AND DIFFERENCE OF STYMIE AND SLAYER STYLES
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Just to point out a broad similarity in the two styles. The slayer style aims to reduce the number of opposing players on the pitch. The stymie style aims to waste opposing player actions. The effect is similar: a reduction in player actions available to your opponent. The difference is that the slayer style works only with time, whereas the stymie style works all the time. So the styles are similar in effect, but different in dimension. The styles apply not only to team development, but also very much to how you play the team on the pitch.

Hope that helps.

[Carnis]

I have to say broadly, any good blood bowl strategy is about reducing liberties. Leaving your opponent with less meaningful actions to perform. The most classic way of reducing liberties are in order: Reducing knockdowns/pushes (Block, Dodge, Foul appearance), reducing blocks (guard, +ST), reducing opposing players (killing skills, fouls), reducing play options (tackle, diving tackle, tentacles, SF, SS).

While smeborg says killing only works with time & stymie works all the time I have to say, at reducing liberties fouling & MB/Claw/PO are more likely to work than wrestle or fend or stand firm. Fouling works at about 50% of the time. MB/Claw/PO about 80% of KDs (stuns reduce liberties too) which roughly 55% of blocks are. So "with time" here means "after the first turn" .

[mattgslater]

@ Carnis: I think for these purposes you're correct. I also think that's only one element among several; reducing liberties is only valuable if the liberties being reduced are valuable, so I don't think that all BB can boil down to it. But when you're talking about strategies like "slay" and "stymie," that's what they have in common.

[Carnis]

@ Carnis: I think for these purposes you're correct. I also think that's only one element among several; reducing liberties is only valuable if the liberties being reduced are valuable, so I don't think that all BB can boil down to it. But when you're talking about strategies like "slay" and "stymie," that's what they have in common.

What do you figure the "meaningful" actions in my post stood for, if not valuable?

[mattgslater]

I'm just saying that if reducing liberties is a basis of some viable strategies, then taking liberties is also a basis of some viable strategies, so reducing liberties can't be the fundamental basis of all BB strategy. That is, if "stopping the big play" is important, then "making the big play" must also be important.

For instance, some teams will happily let the offense OSPT consistently, in exchange for an opportunity to pop the ball, proactively. Yes, they also have to reduce their opponent's liberties to some extent (say, fronting the cage or trying to drive it to a wall, or forcing it to form deep in the backfield, then keeping it on a diet of OSPT), but the key to Agility play is disruption. Stop the cage before it forms, or keep the OL from getting proper support on the cage, or just game for an opportunity and attack when you can, you know?

I don't think I'm saying anything profound. I'm just nitpicking your statement that "any good blood bowl strategy is about reducing liberties." That may be an element of any good BB strategy (certainly, it's at the heart of the Cult of Position), but there are other elements that sometimes take precedence, so perhaps it's an overstatement to say that "any" good BB strategy is "about" reducing liberties, much the same as saying that "any coin is about its obverse face."

[Smeborg]

Carnis and Matt - just to point out that my post entitled "EQUIVALENCE AND DIFFERENCE OF STYMIE AND SLAYER STYLES" did not make a judgment as to which style was better (or worse). It was simply an attempt to inform the debate.

All the best.

[TuernRedvenom]

Hmm, so I've been running a Nurgle team on Cyanide and they're doing ok-ish resultwise (3-2-2), seeing that I don't have much experience with them. But they have gotten some very good stat upgrades and I'm thinking about how to best develop these further. Between parentheses the skills I was thinking of taking next.

the roster:
Beast 16 spp +STR, Guard (Stand Firm): took Guard first, because if I roll double on the next roll and can take Block SF isn't so usefull any more
Warrior 4 spp (Block)
Warrior 5 spp (Block)
Warrior 7 spp Block (Mighty Blow -> Claw)
Warrior 11 spp Block (Guard)
Pestigor 18 spp Block, +AG (Sure Hands)
Pestigor 10 spp Block (Mighty Blow -> Piling On -> Tackle)
Pestigor 1 spp (Wrestle -> Tackle)
Pestigor 0 spp (Block -> Frenzy -> Stand Firm)
Rotter 7 spp Dirty Player (? I'm not even hoping for a second skill)
Rotter 0 spp (Block)
Rotter 0 spp (Block)
Rotter 0 spp -MA (Block)

3 RR
120k banked
5 FF

I think the team looks good so far, all the warriors have picked up spp's in just 7 games (I started with the 2 warriors, 2 pests, Beast, 3 RR roster). Where to go with AG+ dude? Sure Hands seems safest to me. After that I have no idea (still a long way to 76 though).
Should I give rotters wrestle instead of block as a first skill to offset my lack of Tackle?
What to do with the money? When more and more players get Block I should need less rerolls so I'm not sure getting a 4th one is a good idea.
This is in a match making league so any TV "fat" should be kept to an absolute minimum.

[Carnis]

Hope for dodge doubles or more stats for +AG guy. Else sure hands & tackle.

I can't fault you for your picks, but you can afford to lose the -MA rotter. Rotters die, and he has 0 SPP and cash will not be an issue. Also I suggest investing more than one player to MB/claw, even one of the NWs maybe, because longterm.. You will see teams who have only MB/Claw taking out your 1 MB/claw and then proceeding to mutilate your team if you rely on just one. I'd think 2-3 killers should be optimal.

I might suggest Two-heads instead of Stand firm on your possible Frenzy pestigor (if you dont make him a killer) & to go wrestle on the rotters (like you suggest) over the pesties.. Also having 2 dirty players is a really good plan in the current rules with almost any team.

[Creamster]

Hi Guys,

After listening to three dice block podcast featuring the nurgle I had to start them. I was getting sick of my teams not taking a good punch and I thought nurgle would be able to... For the record I only have experience with this team on the LE game and very limited TT play (I am looking to start hitting the London scene though). Currently 11 games in with 6-5-0 playing against randoms in match making (only giving away 5 TDs).

Currently finding it very difficult to level up my non-rotters / pests as the rotters always seem to get the random MVP (8 out of 11 times now) and pests are always getting TD's.

Firstly roster - TV 1480 (3 RR)

Beast - Guard, Standfirm
Warrior - Guard
Warrior - Mighty Blow
Warrior -
Pest - Sure hands, Block
Pest - Dodge
Pest - +1 A
Rotter - Block, Dodge
Rotter - Westle
Rotter - Kick
Rotter -
Rotter -

I have to explain the guard and MB on the 2 warriors. I have had 4 rotters die and in order to keep them on the pitch I am trying to use guard more to reduce the dice coming my way. MB is there because I am not missing block as much but am struggling to get players of the pitch (also I have had all of the warriors for 10 games and they are all below 10 SPP).

I always have to keep a player next to the beast because of the stupid so thought guard would be a good choice. I tried to keep him on the sides as suggested in the podcast and performed ok. Now placing him in the scrum over to one side to force the enemy to come at me from the other. Generally keeping warriors close to the middle and 2 pests on each side (with backup) and a pest safety.

So on to the questions...

(1, Looking at my roster any good skill paths to follow next for each of the players (mainly beast and warriors)? I am mainly looking short term impact as I am leveling up very slowly. I also find block very overrated and don't want to turn my team into a bunch of norse guys. With the MB guy is claws the next best or something else?

(2, How am I going to keep my level 3 rotter alive? Currently lost 4 in 11 games and I have a feeling his time is next. This little wankle has sucked up 4 of the mvp's alone but has got a few TD and cas. Almost level 4 now - any good skills to keep him out of the ground?

(3, I can afford both the extra warrior and pest but am worried about pushing my TV too high. Do I sack a rotter lessen the blow or just accept nurgle have high TV?

Thanks

[Porkus_Maximus]

Tuern: 4 pestigors, 3 rerolls and 120k in the bank after only 7 games? I'm assuming all 3 of your wins were via concession. :p

[TuernRedvenom]

Tuern: 4 pestigors, 3 rerolls and 120k in the bank after only 7 games? I'm assuming all 3 of your wins were via concession. :p

Nope, just 1 concession: the very first game. 1-0 up at half time vs khemri, his 2 ko's don't come back and he quit. After that I could buy the third warrior and still had some money to spare (started with some money in the bank, 30k IIRC).
After the second game I had 100k banked so I bought the last warrior after the third.

On the one hand I was very lucky with my winnings rolls (just last game, a win, netted me 80k). Otoh I think I played a dice cheater (the memories of skaven single and half die-ing my team all over the pitch still haunt me ) which I suspect cost me a loss.
The other loss was vs a high ranked Nurgle team which simply outplayed me (and I made some stupid mistakes).

[Porkus_Maximus]

So on to the questions...

(1, Looking at my roster any good skill paths to follow next for each of the players (mainly beast and warriors)? I am mainly looking short term impact as I am leveling up very slowly. I also find block very overrated and don't want to turn my team into a bunch of norse guys. With the MB guy is claws the next best or something else?

(2, How am I going to keep my level 2 rotter alive? Currently lost 4 in 11 games and I have a feeling his time is next. This little wankle has sucked up 4 of the mvp's alone but has got a few TD and cas. Almost level 3 now - any good skills to keep him out of the ground?

(3, I can afford both the extra warrior and pest but am worried about pushing my TV too high. Do I sack a rotter lessen the blow or just accept nurgle have high TV?

Thanks

1. I personally wouldn't be overly keen on turning my NW into mb/claw killers but since you're in matchmaker it might not be a bad idea. I don't really know what kind of advice to offer someone who thinks block is an "overrated" skill. o_O

2. Your level 2 rotter has block and dodge, keeping him alive should be fairly easy although skill number 3 should probably be fend.

3. Warriors and pestigors are absolutely essential to the team, there is no way that they could be considered as bloat. Ideally I'd want to run a 14-15 man roster in MM, because you're going to start running out of rotters fast at high(er) TV.

[Creamster]

1. I personally wouldn't be overly keen on turning my NW into mb/claw killers but since you're in matchmaker it might not be a bad idea. I don't really know what kind of advice to offer someone who thinks block is an "overrated" skill. o_O

2. Your level 2 rotter has block and dodge, keeping him alive should be fairly easy although skill number 3 should probably be fend.

3. Warriors and pestigors are absolutely essential to the team, there is no way that they could be considered as bloat. Ideally I'd want to run a 14-15 man roster in MM, because you're going to start running out of rotters fast at high(er) TV.

Thanks for your reply. I don't see a massive value in block as I tend to shy away from 1 dice blocks. I have found Block is essential if you are 1 diceing, but using guard I am using 2 basically all of the time and haven't found a massive need. I tend to play a low risk game and only take them if I need them (a few last minute blitz's by pests have saved my arse). In my games I have drawn 3 of them due to a last round touchdown from the enemy so I am happy with the way I am playing (and also not missing block as much as everyone raves about).

Your point 3 is my main concern. I am happy playing at lower TV games due to the nature of higher ones where I will face lots of MB and frenzy. Fresh warriors and pests will not help me even with their OK stats vs highly skilled teams.

[TuernRedvenom]

The math on block is easy.
A player without block is 4 times as likely to cause a blocking turnover on a 2 die block compared to a player with block.
A player without block is about 50% more likely to go down on a 2 die block when he is blocked by a block player.

Block is the best skill in the game, hands down. Not taking it, and skipping wrestle as well is IMO folly unless you're running a joke team.

I find the lack of block very noticeable on starting bash teams like Nurgle. You're just suffering too many turnovers (1 block in 9 goes wrong!).