Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[ShriekBob]

Oh yeah. They came back from KO after my drive didn't they.

[Craigtw]

First game down.

I love the team.

Well glad to hear it. I am glad to see, that as a new coach, you did not buy in to some of the negative press that Nurgle was getting. Nurgle is a very effective team once you get the hang of them. Until you know how to use them it would be very easy to dismiss them as a bad team.

Looking forward to more updates.

[mrinprophet]

I'm still learning and I think I'm being a bit too conservative. I've had to learn that sometimes its best not to activate the beast and simply let him suck up players. The team is really slow, so you have to pay careful attention to your positioning.

I've had bad luck in that I'm on my fourth game and I've had four players killed, while rolling minimum cash. I am really enjoying the team though. And that's what it is all about.

[Smeborg]

Carnis - just to clear up a possible misunderstanding, I don't consider the side you describe as a "slayer" team. It is a team with some damage-causing attributes (say 1 in 3 of their acquired skills such as M-Blow and D-Player). As I have said before, I don't doubt the effectiveness of these skills in practice, I just ask the question whether this is the best of the different development paths available to this team.

I prefer a more "generic" build than you for Nurgle, with fewer player types. If I understand your planned build correctly, you have something like 10 different player types (the Beast, 2 Warrior types, 4 Pestigor types, 3 Rotter types - more than that if you include doubles and stat increases). I admire your playing ability (no irony) if you are able to use all of these accurately at the table, especially as some of them disappear into the dugout. For my part, I find that as a slow and clumsy team (or maybe I am just a slow and clumsy coach!) my players are often out of position even with fewer types of player. This season, I plan just 5 or 6 player types - say the Beast, 1 or 2 Warrior types, 2 Pestigor types, 1 Rotter type - more of course with doubles and stat increases. When I have attempted (for me) a more technical development path for Nurgle (i.e. more player types), things have tended to fall apart when players die or are forcibly retired.

Without re-rehearsing the bash vs. denial argument, here are some development ideas that I have:

- For the Pestigor Runner (I agree one is enough), I prefer raw speed and ball moving ablilty (e.g. Sure Hands, Kick-off Return, Extra Arms, with Sure Feet and Sprint on doubles). He has the option to play on offense only, especially if the other 3 Pestigors are fit.

- For Pestigor Blitzer types, I find that they are often targetted by opponent, and can spend a lot of time lurking in the dugout. That's why I quite like the resilience that comes with a generic build for the other 3 Pestigors.

- For the Rotters, I like skills which improve their chances of survival (and hence skill retention).

- For the Beast, I am open-minded about the order of skill development. I used to start with Stand Firm, then for a good while I started with Break Tackle, now I am trying the Stand Firm route again. Guard is a good skill, too. But I think you need Break Tackle at some point. The point of Break Tackle is that it creates a nasty threat that your opponent has to deal with (or at least think about). You do not necessarily use it often (unless invited to do so by your opponent, or the rest of your team is falling apart). You can mitigate the risks of Loner + Break Tackle by using the Beast on the last or penultimate action of you turn. Last season, my Beast with Break Tackle, Pro, +1ST, Stand Firm was rather handy. Against slow caging teams he could be a cage-breaker (3+ dodge into 3 tackle zones). In general, I don't mind taking multiple 2+ risks with the Beast if it creates nastiness (for example 2 go-for-its to put the ball carrier in his tackle zone).

- For the team as a whole, I take few or none of the "team" skills such as Leader, Kick, Dirty Player ("team" skills are those that help the team, but not the player). This is rather unusual, even for me (and I know some coaches would consider it "heretical"), but I have found in practice that it seems to work for the strange team that is Nurgle. Such skills do not fit well on the Rotters, because of their rather pronounced tendency to die, retire, or miss games (making the skills unavailable to the team). Because of Decay, a Rotter who becomes a Casualty has just a 1 in 4 chance of playing in the next game. This creates an unusual development dynamic, not just for the Rotters, but for their team.

All the best.

[ShriekBob]

Game two down. We decided to keep the results of the SPPs from the last game, just to see how it would change things.

I won 1-0. Should have been 2-0 but in the 2nd Half, on Turn 8, I was in such a hurry to finish up I forgot to move my turn counter, and got illegal proc.

First half, much the same as before. I fell foul of a Frenzy blitz taking a Chaos Warrior into the crowd (because I forgot about that >_<) that basically meant I was a man down for the half. Other than that, the usual, shut down ball play with DP, hold possibly blitzers/ball carriers as appropriate with The Beast (AKA The Gribbly). The Rotter with Dirty Player put the boot in turn after turn after turn. By the end of the first half he was down to 4 guys on field. A couple KOed, 2 D&I I believe. I was down to 8, 2 KOed, 2 in reserve (I had enough left after the last match to buy another Pestigor, which started the match on the field, got D&Ied, but Regened). The entire turn was his first play, with me parking a Pestigor right on the line till the end of the turn I believe (details are fuzzy, it was a good.....6 hours ago).

Second half, kicked to me. 6 of his players on the board, 11 of mine, with 1 Rotter still KOed. I made a couple of really really really stupid positional mistakes which stopped me from tieing up nearly every player in the beasts nasty little grip. Again much the same. Pestigor picked up ball in my half, a tasty little blitz made a nice clear opening, a quick screen incase of a lucky dodge made him safe. He moved down the pitch and sat 1 square off TD from turn 4 till I ballsed up turn 8. The middle was again a glorious anarchy of nastiness. A LOT of 2D blocks and 3D blocks, I seemed to roll endless amounts of pushback, doing little more than jostling dwarves around quite a bit. I made up for this with a series of crackin' rolls for armour and injury. Again, Dirty Player proved a good choice. I only have 2 re-rolls, which I burnt far too early, but from these last two games that actually served me well, burning them early, helping me set up a degree of safety so Double Skulls (or that damned Block Skill) causing Turnover didn't cause me any pain.

Only rolled 30k for winnings >_<

So yeah, another TD on the first Pestigor, I'm thinking Guard/Mighty Blow on him next, turning him into a bit of a beastly killing machine, and setting up the Pestigor remaining as my main ball carrier (Sure Hands, Extra Arms et al). A couple more casualties all round (2 more on the Dirty Player),and an MVP to a Chaos Warrior (Unfortunately not the one with the casualty >_<). I do think my opponent was cursed with bad dice from time to time to.

Finaly Casualty score at the end of the game: -

Me: 1 KO, 11 on Field
Opponent: 4D&I, 6KO, 2 on Field.

The mixture of bash, denial, pace control, and knowing when to break the ball through the whole. I can't wait to finish painting them.

[ShriekBob]

Oh, as for Stand Firm on the beast.

In the two games I've had so far, I have rarely let the Beast get Multi-ganged, and who is gonna take a 2dice my choice? really? So yeah. I'm not sure what to do with him, I'm very much tempted to not take Break Tackle and take Stand Firm anyway, simply because I think if I took Break Tackle I'd be far too tempted to move him around all the time, and I'd start running into Tentacles getting shut down because I failed a Really Stupid roll.

[rvlvr]

Hi all,

Tried one game with Nurgle. The previous game I played was two years ago, or so.

I played against a Necromantic team with two wights, two flesh golems and one werewolf. I had three warriors, one pestigor and the beast. Both were starting teams, so no extra skills, inducements or others.

I sucked hard and lost 0-2 as the wights and werewolf rained holy hell on me. The flesh golems did quite well, too, standing firm and cramping my style. The beast, although he fell stupid a few times, seemed like a good player. The warriors did not. And as I lost my sole pestigor quite early in the game my options were even more limited. Even though a few rotters managed to play the ball it was not enough. I inflicted two casualties, but they regenerated, so no long-term injuries. (Not that it would matter as we both decided this was just a warm-up game.)

Had a few bad breaks with the dice, but that is to be expected. Still, this combined with the fact there are no skills on any of my players I will try and start our season with the following team:

Spartak Transnistria

6 rotters
3 pestigors
2 warriors

4 re-rolls
2 FF

The first player I aim to buy is the beast. Not sure how I will fare, but at least with those re-rolls I believe I would be able to maybe get some things done. And yes: the team is not that Nurgle -- at least not yet -- but I do need the pestigors. Rotters have AG3, too, but I will not rely on them in the long run.

Still, it was fun to play again. Damn good game, that good ol' Blood Bowl.

[Ullis]

and who is gonna take a 2dice my choice? really?

Since the Beast doesn't have Block, even a player without Block can take the chance easily.

Getting a skull on -2d is only 30% and with a reroll it becomes a very manageable 10%.

Getting neither a skull or both down is 45%, but Both down can be an ok result for the opponent, since the Beast has Really Stupid.

Those chances can be weighted against the odds of knocking the Beast down. If the opponent has Block, then it's 25% of getting a knock down and continuing your turn. Without Block it's only 11%.

So, a player with Block has a 11% chance of falling down himself while having a 45% of knocking down the Beast (with a reroll) on -2d.

[Craigtw]

and who is gonna take a 2dice my choice? really?

Since the Beast doesn't have Block, even a player without Block can take the chance easily.

Getting a skull on -2d is only 30% and with a reroll it becomes a very manageable 10%.

Getting neither a skull or both down is 45%, but Both down can be an ok result for the opponent, since the Beast has Really Stupid.

Those chances can be weighted against the odds of knocking the Beast down. If the opponent has Block, then it's 25% of getting a knock down and continuing your turn. Without Block it's only 11%.

So, a player with Block has a 11% chance of falling down himself while having a 45% of knocking down the Beast (with a reroll) on -2d.

Also on that note, if the ball carrier is in the beast's Tentacles, then it is far easier to take the 2D your choice hit and hope for anything but a skull (assuming they have Block) - because even the push will get them off of you and free them up to run away.

Also remember that any block is more likely to be successful when you are the agressor.

[ShriekBob]

Point taken. Stand firm it will be. Should he ever get the SPP.

[Carnis]

My Block/Guard beast gets pushed around with chainpushes, not really with those -2 die blocks or even the 1die blocks. Chainpushes can often free the ballcarrier he has tentacled.. So that's why stand firm is a really annyoing skill to have on a beastie.

[Smeborg]

Another good tactic for getting away from the Beast's Tentacles is to block another player (and follow up). A good coach will push (or even chainpush) a player into position for this "escape" block. That's one reason why Stand Firm and Fend are good skills on the Nurgle team (these skills prevent opposing players from making that "escape" block by denying the follow up move).

[Welshy]

... Stand firm it will be...

Good choice. As a frequent recipient of Smeborg's dastardly Nurgley plans I can assure you that this is a hugely frustrating skill.

As already pointed out, 2Dblock up hill is a no-brainer for me (as the oppoonent) if all I need is a push and especially if my player has BLOCK. With STANDFIRM 8 out of 9 2DBlocks (your choice) will be in your favour. This is also a 'passive' skill therefore tends to work well for 'stupid' players and another reason I would advocate BLOCK as a doubles choice.

I would consider BREAKTACKLE to be a good choice as a second skill as it will allow your beast to get to the most annoying position. At current a cunning opponent will man-mark the beast out of the action with your only choice to use your Blitz to free the nasty putird lump!

[ShriekBob]

More excellent advice. Thank you all.

Nearly finished painting the rotters. If people are interested I can keep posting lil match reports, and my thoughts.

[mrinprophet]

Please do. I just started a team in MBBL and could use any pointers possible.