Discuss Fantasy football-style board games - GW's Blood Bowl, Impact!'s Elfball, Privateer Press' Grind, Heresy's Deathball, etc. THIS IS NOT AN NFL FANTASY FOOTBALL SITE!
Jimmy Fantastic wrote:their linemen are either cheaper and just as good (Pestigors) or far better (rotters)
Lets put it in other terms, if you had access to 6338 players for 40k on a chaos team, wouldn't you take a few? I certainly would.
As a starting roster I'd take 3 Warriors, 3 pestigors, 3 rerolls, 5 rotters and save 20k, it's not as tough as the other start roster but it plays better (for me atleast).
Smeborg wrote:It is viable (though I agree, perhaps not better) to deploy a passive Beast on the LoS in defense against an AG team, especially if your opponent lacks ST4 or ST5 players (for example: Skaven without the Rat Ogre). This leads to a quite different and potentially wild defense.
I don't get how you can say that playing a beast passive gives you a potentially wild defense, relying on a really stupid/loner with break tackle to tie up receivers pretty much defines a wild defense in my book. I agree that the times that the beast should stand on LOS are few and far in between but relying on him to do anything leads to opponents running free (which is very dangerous with nurgle) and turnovers.
corlm wrote:
Lets put it in other terms, if you had access to 6338 players for 40k on a chaos team, wouldn't you take a few? I certainly would.
Yes everyone would take 6338 players for 40k, that's why they don't exist!
I would not however take 5338 players with decay for 40k on any non joke team.
"They're shit go away" isn't really advice or resources, its thread crapping. I asked for some critical advice on how to play the team that I already knew I wanted to play, "Don't play them, they're shit" really isn't very useful.
Everyone else however, thank you for the advice so far. I'm painting the team now, gonna try a few games over the next few days when I should be able to come back with my thoughts and experiences and might possibly be asking for some more advice >_>
ShriekBob wrote:Heres the problem, I have found only one strategy guide for them. This leads me to think one of three things. 1) The team is aweful
I was informing you that your original assessment was correct.
I did not tell you to go away, I said if you love the team crack on.
The thing is, you have only played for 6 weeks, you have only used an agility team and you are asking for advice for the worst bash team.
In BB there only really 2 teams, agility teams and bash teams, all bash teams play almost identically despite what the people in this thread claim.
The fact that you have never used a bash team means you need to learn how to play as a bash team.
Attempting this with the worst bash team, after admitting you need advice means you are gonna be in for a very tough ride, I was simply trying to let you know.
I would advise playing some games with Orcs, get the hang of bash teams and AG3, and then when you are more comfortable step up to the challenge of Nurgle.
I have played a few games with Orcs when I was first learning the game, with some success. I'm afraid however, even with my minimal experience I have to disagree on "there are only agility and bashy teams". That is a gross oversimplification. Take Lizards for example, they mix speed and bash, and have no agi 4. I've played a slack handful of games with my friends Lizards, again, with some success.
Love the nurglers. They are allrounders who do not rely on a single stat-increase/double for advancing.
Rotters have natural strenghts with GM access:
Dirty player (OBVIOUS, 40k!), Wrestle/Block, Tackle, Disturbing presence (for total pass blockage), and possibly two-heads for repositioning. They always die before reaching their 4th level so most nurglers will be fielding 1 skill wrestle / block + possibly dirtyplayer rotters, and a bunch of older guys with block/tackle/dist presence kind of builds.
The pestigors are FANTASTIC slayers having GSM access and 6 speed+S4 for blitzes. I can see sacrificing one for ballcarrying (blodge, surehands), after rolling that dodge-double only, though. The rest can be general killers/guards.
Warriors&Beast are great players, though they do look like glorified overpriced orcs to me.
In other words, nurgle are orcs with early weaknesses. I think they excel at >1750k rating though, where they start beating orcs due to claw access.
And regeneration is a lot better than apothecary, you can regen 50% of your non-fatal injuries too. That means you're more likely than not be fielding your best 11 on the 2nd half too, instead of a replacement lineup
It seems there are really not that many options when skilling up the Beast. My understanding is that the first skill should be either a) Break Tackle or b) Stand Firm. And, depending on the skill taken, the 2nd choice is the one you did not choose the first time or, in case of doubles, Pro or Block.
Is this so, or am I missing something? The guy will not be scoring TDs and to develop the Beast into a killer with, for example, Claws is kinda missing the point, I believe.
Still trying to figure out the starting roster of my team. Will most likely go with 4 Chaos Warriors and try to manage with the lone Pestigor handling the ball. The lack of RRs will hurt, too. Damn expensive, this team.
Carnis - while I agree that Nurgle can be made into an acceptable slayer side, I am not sure this is the best route for them. Other teams make better slayers, IMO, and Nurgle will tend to lose against them (or at least get wiped out by M.A.D.). The more I play Nurgle, the more I tend towards a pure denial strategy in both play and development. For example:
- Block, Stand Firm on at least 2 Warriors (supremely annoying - a Flesh Golem with Foul Appearance).
- Wrestle, Fend, Tackle, Two Heads on 3 Pestigors (the other Pestigor is the Runner). Pure Blitzers (for ball retrieval). On doubles, Sidestep, Jump Up.
- Block, Fend, Foul Appearance on the Rotters (for survival, mobility and annoyance). Guard on doubles (they are quiet players, giving assists is something they like to do).
This is a sort of "come and get me strategy". A good proportion of the opponent's blocks will be wasted, or work to the advantage of the Nurgle team. Plus movement becomes difficult for the opponent. This strategy has the advantage of working against both bash and agility teams. It also is effective immediately - you do not have to wait until TV175 (or whatever).
We'll have to wait until later this season (just started) to see how the strategy works out in full. But I just wanted to make the point that there is quite a big variance in the way coaches can successfully develop this team.
Me & Smeborg have always disagreed about the "optimal play" of nurgle. I stand by my opinion that developing a lone slayer for every team is essential, or else you are purposefully handicapping yourself. I don't see the point in skipping the mandatory block guards either, unless if you're only playing elfbowl teams.
- Wrestle, Fend, Tackle, Two Heads on 3 Pestigors (the other Pestigor is the Runner). Pure Blitzers (for ball retrieval). On doubles, Sidestep, Jump Up.
Couldnt disagree more. Wrestle is poor with guard/mb/claw access players, fend is a subpar skill maybe best saved for skill #6 if nothing else is left to be picked, or for norse linemen. Tackle is nice, I tend to pick it too, but with block/mb/guard as the other skills (yea, dull). Two heads is ok too, but only after dodge doubles. Still, smeborg believes in skipping dodge doubles so go figure.
Rotters:
1) Block or Kick for one of them, 2) Foul Appearance or Wrestle
Doubles: 1) Guard, 2) Dodge
**
There's the one killer Carnis thinks is required and some more mutations to boost the harassment level. I, too, am not that sure whether or not Fend is something to get, but could well be proven wrong in the future.
rvlvr wrote:Pestigor 1:
1) Extra Arms, 2) Block, 3) Kick Off Return or Two Heads
Doubles: 1) Dodge, 2) Pass or Sure Feet, maybe?
Pestigors 2&3:
1) Block, 2) Guard, 3) Extra Arms or Two Heads, maybe?
Doubles: 1) Dodge, 2) Catch?
....
There's the one killer Carnis thinks is required and some more mutations to boost the harassment level. I, too, am not that sure whether or not Fend is something to get, but could well be proven wrong in the future.
I doubt the value of building for a semireliable passing option with Nurgle. The slowness of the team means that it will only be really needed in emergencies, such as when trying to score in two turns. For that Sure Hands (for the Pestigor picking up) and one Extra Arms pestigor should be enough. Pass and Catch are doubles skills and there's lots of other stuff on doubles too. Pass followed by Strong Arm could be interesting but the team still lacks speed to threaten a quick passing play.
On whether taking Dodge pays off I'd think that either take Dodge on all AG3 player on doubles or then skip it for the entire team. The league has Amazons, Dark elves and Slann (plus Chaos, Chaos Pact and Vampires) so other teams should be picking up at least one Tackler.
Fend is more annoying than it looks on paper. A LOS with three Wrestle+Fend rotters will cause lots of gnashing of teeth (and protect against Frenzy and Piling On). Not being able to follow up will mean a possible cage will be farther back and the rotters will be able to reposition when they stand up.
Yeah, to rely on passing plays with Nurgle is pushing it. Still, it'd be a nice option.
And the Dodge issue is, well, an issue. The tacklers could well come in heavy so your words do ring true. Two Heads will work better, there, when you need the mobility.
I'll write shortly on how I'm building my nurgle and why. My current lineup is:
Medicalization (Nurgle's Rotters)
Intensive care unit: Beast, Block/Guard (next skill is SF, unless I luck out with +ST or get a double for tackle or claw). 190k
Haematologist: NW, Block (eyes on guard/mb or mb/claws - if +ST then tentacles!) 130k
Endocrinologist: NW, Block (as above) 130k
Cardiologist: NW, Block (as above) 130k
Nephrologist: NW, MB (eyes on Claws/Block) 130k
Orthopaedic surgeon: Pest Block/Guard (eyes on MB/x-arms or Tackle) 120k
Anesthesiologist: Pest Block/MB/Piling on/Tackle (eyes on claws) 160k
Emergency Med: Pest Sure Hands, Dodge (eyes on Block, later guard two-heads or tackle) 130k
Gastroenterologist: Pest MB (eyes on Claws/Block/Piling on/Guard) 100k
Hypothyroidic patient: Rotter Dirty player (Eyes on wrestle, tackle, dist presence) 60k
Undiagnosed: Rotter 40k
Pneumonia: Rotter Block (eyes on tackle, dist presence, x-arms) 60k
Undiagnosed: Rotter 40k
Acute MI: Dirty Player/Wrestle (eyes on tackle, two-heads) 80k
3 rerolls, 8 fans, 330k in treasury for a team worth 1790k
The beast is going to be a roadblock:
Block (rolled 6+6)/Guard/SF/Grab I don't believe in rolling 2 2+'s without rerolls for repositioning (Break Tackle), instead plan ahead and push players onto your beast or don't let your opponent mark it out freely.
The warriors are going 2 routes:
1. Block/MB/Claws (Guard/Tackle)
2. Block/Guard/MB (Claws/SF)
If someone lucks out with +MA or +AG it is ignored, +ST is taken for a tentacles warrior later. Doubles are ignored.
The pestigors are 4 individuals, but aim to spread guard/tackle/mb around:
1. Block/MB/PO//Tackle/Claws (doubles ignored) - Killer/Tackler
2. Block/MB/Claws/PO/Guard (doubles ignored) - Killer/Guarder
3. Block/Guard/MB/X-arms/Tackle (doubles probably ignored, dodge a possibility) - Guarder/Hand-off target
4. Block/Dodge/Sure Hands/Two-heads (Tackle, Guard or X-arms) - Ballcarrier
If you get a +AG or a +MA make him your ballcarrier, if you already have a ballcarrier.. Then consider replacing him with the guy with +MA/AG. If you get a late +MA/AG on a killer then ignore it for a skill instead. If you get +ST consider builds 3. or 4. ST4 ballcarrier is immensely annoying against WDs and whatnot. Same goes for ST4 guards though.
The rotters are all about variation:
1. Dirty Player/Wrestle (DP initially for damage, Wrestle cause you want to sometimes blitz Block-ballcarriers)
2. Block/Dist Presence/Tackle
3. Wrestle/Tackle/Twoheads
4. etc.
Just pick skills that your NWs and pesties lack. Mainly wrestle, tackle and dirty player though. If you luck out and roll doubles or 5+5 take dodge for blodging linemen with eyes on two-heads later! Stats: Ignore AG, pick ST & possibly AV. But only take AV if you already got block/wrestle, else ignore as +AV < Block.
--
Main strat is always kick if you can. Defend by pulling 2-3 players into the beast giving you a man advantage. Block passing by spreading out 2 DP's on both sides of the pitch. You can cover the entire pitch with 2DPs /side by keeping the NWs at 3 squares from the sideline. Having a few rotters with dist presence helps this immensely. Still, the only skills you should consider as firstpick for rotters should be Dirty player, Block and Wrestle.
Do not leave easy dodge-out holes in your defence, or your DP won't help against passing at all. Blitz with your killer every turn, if you got spare guys then foul in the player if he didn't get stunned or worse. Always pile on armor and stuns, also pile on KOs if facing AV7 elves who you are unlikely to successfully defend against. Try to play time for a good 3-4 rounds until your beast tents + slayer-pestigor blitzes give you a man advantage at which point mark the entire opposing team for a defensive score.
Often elves will be able to score against you by braving 1-3 dist presences, just grind consistently for a 2-1 or even 3-1 win. Especially against elves its important never to stop fouling, unless if that leads to a significant immediate disadvantage. You can often go for a 3-scorer with nurgle if you can foul/blitz out your opponent to 4-6 players.
Offence is easy, pickup the ball with your blodge/surehands, form a cage. Foul with your cage (surround your target with cage corners + ballcarrier +1-2 players -> foul away with +4-5!). Remember to never leave the fouler at a cage-corner, though! Only use rotters with dirty player for fouling. Assume you will need at least 6 turns to score, but against thinned lines you can sometimes pull 2-3turners with no problems (using x-arms pestigor for handoffs/passes).
This is the "slayer path". There are probably some variations, but the basics should be there.. The advantages/disadvantages nurgle have in slaying vs orcs and chaos are:
Vs Chaos:
+Regen
+Dist presence/foul appearance
+Cheap fouling linemen + regen = long bench always available
+More resilient big guy (Foul app + AV9 + regen)
-Worse skillaccess on beast than minotaur
-Only 4 GSM-access beastmen available!
-Higher initial cost, and NWs are harder to skill up than CWs due to -MA -AG.
Pushing and chain pushing people around the beast, using Disturbing Presence to shutdown ball plays, rotters, even at MV5 are perfectly acceptable if placed correctly at doubling up for 2 dice blocks, and more than adept at a quick foul.
First half I kicked, gave my opponent no good options, his ball carrier ended up deep in his half with no holes to get through and all his passing targets covered with a heavy blanket of DP, most of them in tentacles, which reminds me, following up out of tackle zones, I can see why some people take fend now. I ground his team down till there was a hole for the Pestigor and a Warrior to break through, moving down the pitch. Warrior moved up to ball carrier, Pestigor blitzed and scored at the end of the half.
2nd half I recieved, much the same, lots of pushing of targets onto the beast, a fair amount of grinding down at the LOS, a fair amount of fouling. Pestigor got the ball, caged up with the 4 Warriors, who then proceeded to make there way down the pitch scoring in my 2nd to last turn (cos the LOS was starting to turn against me cos it was just the Beast and Rotters at this point, and the Mino wouldn't stay on his arse cos I forgot to foul >_<)
I won 2-0, 0 Casualties to 5 (1 D&I, 4KO). MVP went to the rotter that caused the D&I, who would have picked up kick if this hadn't been a friendly. The pestigor would have picked up block.
As the opponent in that game, I feel the need to defend myself. Yes, you danced all over me and I did get locked up by Disturbing Presence (a run of 1's and skull rolls didn't help) but you didn't end on 5 casultys! 4 of them came back in my last turn!
