Elf team?

[Vesticle]

Line-elves are too expensive to send into a scrimmage without a reliable way to get out of it.

-Balrog

Yeah, I noticed that even though they're as good at blocking as most other linemen (strength 3, armor , they problem isn't necessarily in success, it's replacing the injured.

That, and though the stats say they're just as good, their dice rolls say they aren't. And I notice I haven't gotten much help on Question C.

David

[wesleytj]

I've had all kinds of success with both wood and dark elves. I'm sure I'd be ok with High elves too, but I've never coached them. As a general of about 10,000 points of WH Dark Elves, I could never in good conscience field those little punks in Blood Bowl.

Anyway, my starting Wood Elf team is always:
1WD
10 Line
2rr
8ff

I've never lost with them in their 1st game (about a dozen or so tries) The WD is the master of the field, and everyone else is good too. They can all run, pass, catch, dodge, and hit pretty well. Back when it only took 11 SPP to get 2 skills, I got to the 2nd skill a few times with the WD without getting him the MVP. It's really rude to show up to your second game with a dude that has 5 skills, and that statline.

Dark Elves I start this way:
1Bl
10 Line
2rr
9ff
10ktreas

I don't have a perfect first game record with them, but very good. (Anybody that tells you elves aren't good early on doesn't know how to coach em!) My first ever team was a Darkie team (loved the minis and the attitude, that was before I started playing WH, prolly why I have them as an army) Lost my first ever game on the last turn (had to make 1gfi to tie the score with a reroll and failed)

Anyway, they work well too. If you'd rather you can just as easily switch the blitzer and 10k for a witch, but I don't trust them in a first game. They're kinda psycho, and only AV7, and with no bench you can't afford to GIVE somebody a free KO'd (or worse) elf. You could also switch a line elf, the 10k, and 2ff for a 2nd blitzer, but I really like having max ff for elves, you can only buy it once. Then buy the apoth and a witch (then it's safer!)

As for question #3, if ANYBODY has any input on that one I'd LOVE to hear it. Been trying for years to find a way around that one! (See note about first ever game, and you have the SLIGHTEST INKLING of what I'm talking about)

[DoubleSkulls]

The line up I posted is the starting line up and strategy that I took to a tabletop league championship. Dodge is way better as a first skill then Block, otherwise I guarantee you that 90% of your turnovers will come from failed Dodge rolls. Line-elves are too expensive to send into a scrimmage without a reliable way to get out of it.

-Balrog

This all depends on how you play. I make perhaps 1~2 dodges a turn and then only when necessary.

I do not try to dodge every player out of TZ's.

A block has 1/9 chance of going wrong, a dodge 1/6. TRRs work equally on either. Blocks have the advantage of hurting the opposition too.

Its safer to block holes in the line than dodge through them.

My team is doing quite well against good opposition.

[Vesticle]

What do you guys think about this?

1 Dragon Warrior
1 Phoenix Warrior
9 Linemen
2 Re-rolls
9 FF

David

[wesleytj]

I don't like starting elf teams with a designated thrower. Use line elves as throwers early on, that way you can spread out those spp's and all you need is the mvp to get a skill. Then after a few games everyone on your team has block.

Or maybe that's just me.

[Vesticle]

Well, I figure I can do that even with a thrower on my team, and I had an extra 10k to spend. I figure I might as well upgrade one of the linemen to a thrower, as long as I don't make the mental mistake of focusing my SPPs too much on him.

[wesleytj]

That makes sense to me. No reason NOT to have it if you use it that way.

[Longshot]

A Thrower is needed.
He has 'Pass' skills (always good) and if you do some pass early, you will get more skills and be very dangerous for the opponent.

[wesleytj]

Not in my experience, although of course ymmv.

I would rather have 10 skilled line elves than 1 skilled thrower. Just throw a bunch of quick passes with your line elves in early games, it's just 2 for the throw and 2 for the catch.

Then after a while (depending on how much winnings you make or whatever) you can buy a thrower and you'll have a much better overall team.

[Deathwing]

My theory was that the DWs hit, the thrower passes and the linemen score.

[Marcus]

Elves, particularly Woodelves, really come into their own when the linemen all have a couple of skills. The best way to get those skills is to rotate your players through the fullback position and send the odd one down as a reciever. If you use your catchers and blitzers as playmakers you can use pass/handoff plays to keep the passes short and use the Lineelves to run the touchdowns in.

Throwers you can add in later once you've got your players up to speed. You don't really need those extra pass skills until further down the track and, in all fairness, if you're winning all the time you only get kicked to once per game

Think about what an elf team with a block/dodge/sidestep front line does to an offensive drive....

Marcus
Marcus

[martynq]

Anybody that tells you elves aren't good early on doesn't know how to coach em!

OK, that would be me then. I've never said that I'm a great coach; I'm an ok coach. My record in the MBBL was four losses at first (Wood Elf, Dwarf, DW's high elves, Dwarf) and then a win (Galak's halflings) and I'm currently 2-1 up against a gobbo team. I guess I don't know how to coach elves.

So Wesleytj, can you tell us how you coach elves? (If you felt like a PBEM game, I'd love to pick up a few tips.)

DW already pointed out some places where I was a bit cr@p in the game I played against him, but I'm sure I'm in desperate need of improvement.

Cheers,
Martyn

[Vesticle]

...can you tell us how you coach elves?

As Pariah said, "Don't!"



David

[wesleytj]

Anybody that tells you elves aren't good early on doesn't know how to coach em!

OK, that would be me then. I've never said that I'm a great coach; I'm an ok coach.

I never meant to suggest you weren't a good coach overall...I think I recall playing against you once a few years back online and it was a good game...

Anyway, as far as my tips to you on coaching elves, the first thing I'd direct you to is my online Strat. guide. It was written for wood elves, and some of it is outdated (updating that is one of my major goals for fall) but it still has a lot of solid overall advice, way more than I would have time/space to put here (if I had time to tell you all of that, I'd have time to update the site wouldn't I?)

I think it's linked elsewhere around here but just in case here you go:

http://mama.indstate.edu/users/python/bbowl/welves/

Let me know if you find it of some use. I've gotten a lot of positive feedback from it over the years so I think you'll get something out of it.

Obviously any specific questions I would be happy to help out as well.

[neverdodge]

i ve readed your advices a few month ago, and i m happy to find the one who wrote that. I m starting a league and playing a wood elf team with the line up you tell. I have just a few question to ask you,

- What do you do if you got a death or a serious injury (or more av7 isn t a lot) on the first game (i suppose you ll answer you play with 10 players, but did that happen often ?)

- Do you often put your wardancer in the middle of the fight ? i mean i know that guy is really strong and hard to knock down, but he s expensive and losing him on fisrt game should really hurt the team.

thx

Nd (i know that s not a good elf coach name )