Looking for good Nurgle resources/advice

[DiddleySquat]

My experience is also you need 1 (at most 2 RR) on defense for the occasional Double Skull or reroll on your safety (either for the dodge if he got marked, or the blitz if he doesn't get the ball down).

On offense on the other hand... I need 4 or 5. I usually run out of RR around turn 4. I'm pretty sure I'm horrible at advancing the ball in a cage, but it seems you need almost everything to succeed when trying to move the ball forward and keep your cage going: you need def down to create holes, you need to get the Beast going so have to occasionally reroll his Really Stupid (with Loner), you sometimes need to throw a 1D block to get rid of a Guard, you need pushes (not both downs!) to fight yourself free again...
When one of those goes wrong, shit is hitting the fan and you're looking at needing dodges with your ball carrier, or a hand-off, or GFI's, or even a pass...

That, or I need to seriously train my offensive tactics.

@Spubbba: really keep the Rotter. He's line fodder, 4 or 5 MA really won't matter. Block does. He'll die eventually, but that's what Rotters are for. I only sack a Rotter for -ST, -AV or Niggle.

[Smeborg]

With -MA? Keep him. He already has Block.

Yes, I would keep such a Rotter. Not ideal, but better than a rookie. You can always put him on the line to further shorten his life expectancy.

[Smeborg]

@Spubbba: really keep the Rotter. He's line fodder, 4 or 5 MA really won't matter. Block does. He'll die eventually, but that's what Rotters are for. I only sack a Rotter for -ST, -AV or Niggle.

I follow the same "system" normally, especially if the Rotter has skills or SPPs. You can get quite attached to a skilled Rotter with (say) -1MA, -1AG. That's 4328 Block, Decay. An aspiring Zombie. Tends to happen on a single CAS result.

[betterZthenDeaD]

You can get quite attached to a skilled Rotter with (say) -1MA, -1AG. That's 4328 Block, Decay. An aspiring Zombie. Tends to happen on a single CAS result.

Laughed at that... I like the idea of something 'aspiring' to be a Zombie!

[Carnis]

Spubbbba made a point about standard vs killer vs stymie build etc. The example of RO's team as a standard chaos is imho erranous one, as he is the most bash-oriented chaos/nurgle team-builder (but not player) in the whole of Fumbbl's B-div. Standard chaos often have 2-3 ballcarriers who have less than optimal skills such as X-arms, K-ret, etc for a killer team. Chuck's only have a blodge carrier, guard blockers and killers (Jill being the workhorse with BFrackle+Clawpomb). At one point he had 4 clawpomb-built chaos warriors (Block,Guard,MB,Claw,PO,+ Tackle or frenzy) and 2 beastmen (Block,Tackle,Clawmbpo), no mino to keep TV down. If this is the standard build I do not know what the killer build is. He has had a bunch of casualties against now (kills and player-retiring injuries like -ST), so his team looks less frightening now. Also I disagree that killer teams in general win less, they win more. Koadah stats showed chaos winning 65% of their games at tv 2100+.. Only beaten by some elves, who had <15 games at that TV total.

(a) M-Blow is the first choice on the Warriors for many killer teams that I have seen (not Jimmy's, I know). I consider this a weak choice compared to the standard stymie Block, especially in the short term.

(b) Wrestle is the first choice on 3 Pestigors in the stymie build. This is IMO better than Block (mainly for ball-hunting), and likely to contribute to improved results immediately.

(c) Last but not least, the style of play of the teams is different (one has a focus more on player numbers, one more on the ball). At any coaching standard below perfection, I suspect this difference could be evident from the first game.

a) I think if you play with 2 RRs then there is no difference, everybody must take block first. Most play with 2 RRs, I have sometimes experimented with 3 RRs which is when taking MB is an actual option and it nets some gains over Block. Hence, 90% of the time - no difference.

b) Ballcarrying with Block vs ballhunting with Wrestle +-0 in my book. Could even end up + for the Block-coach when playing teams that start with block..

c) No difference again, can't expect teambuild differences to produce playstyle/coachskill differences.

[mattgslater]

stuff I mostly agree with, except...

Also I disagree that killer teams in general win less, they win more. Koadah stats showed chaos winning 65% of their games at tv 2100+.. Only beaten by some elves, who had <15 games at that TV total.

I think this is heavily influenced by league format. TV matching is kind to killers. Or rather, big handicaps on good teams are unkind to killers, and not at all uncommon in perpetual formats with scheduled seasons, like many TT leagues.

(c) Last but not least, the style of play of the teams is different (one has a focus more on player numbers, one more on the ball). At any coaching standard below perfection, I suspect this difference could be evident from the first game.

...
c) No difference again, can't expect teambuild differences to produce playstyle/coachskill differences.

I'm not sure I understand this. Are you saying that team style isn't a factor in coaching skill? 'Cause I have to call BS on that. Not any coach who can play one style effectively can necessarily play any other style effectively. I've seen coaches who could excel with, say, Skaven, but couldn't grasp the key differences even in another Agility team. The same is likewise true of build; some Orc coaches need mobility to make use of Guard, and tend to put it on Blitzers, while others prefer Guard and ST paired on the same player to open up blocks, and like to get it on Blockers. And then there are those who do both, either by spamming it across the Power Nine, or by taking it on some of each. Lots of coaches in each camp swear that theirs is the One True Way, and can back it up with personal experience, because for them it is!

[Carnis]

Are you saying that team style isn't a factor in coaching skill?

Not at all. Just stating that to take wrestle first vs block first does not significantly change your play strategy/options early on.

[mattgslater]

Are you saying that team style isn't a factor in coaching skill?

Not at all. Just stating that to take wrestle first vs block first does not significantly change your play strategy/options early on.

Agreed, I think, mostly. Sometimes it really matters; for instance, using a pest to hit a cage-corner with Block gives you a 3/4 chance to bring him down, and a 35/36 chance to get two zones on the carrier, as opposed to 5/9 and 11/12, but with 7/36 of a lost action. For a team with only 2RR, I see why that's a net plus.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

Early on Block is clearly an advantage over Wrestle vs most teams who will lack Block.
Later I can see the usefulness of a sweeper kind of player with wrestle tackle etc, but I think with only 4 Pests I will never try it preferring a mobile guarder instead and relying on my killers to take down dodgers.

[mattgslater]

I've had some success with one Wrestle Pest. I haven't had the guts to take more than one, but the one is great. Wrestle/Horns is an excellent combo. You can take it early, too: even if most players on a team don't have Block, it's pretty easy to win your matchups with that one guy.

As for Smeborg's approach with three, I have to say it's not what I would do. I think I understand it now, though, and it does make sense if that's the way you play it, especially if you like to build generalist Pestigors.

[Smeborg]

Having only 4 Pestigors is a defining constraint for Nurgle, regardless of build type. It means that skill choices for Pests are very committal. I note that there seems to be general agreement on this thread that Nurgle need only 1 Runner Pest. This leaves just 3 for other tasks, requiring care in skill selection. Chaos, with Beastmen in unlimited numbers (relatively speaking), have the luxury of creating whatever specialists they fancy (Receivers, for example).

[Smeborg]

Carnis and Jimmy - let us know what the commonly seen 5 RR are used for in FUMBBL.

Thanks.

[mattgslater]

Carnis and Jimmy - let us know what the commonly seen 5 RR are used for in FUMBBL.

Thanks.

Even better, Smeborg, why don't you watch replays and give us an outsider's report?

[Smeborg]

Matt - as I've said before, I do not have time in my life for FUMBBL at the moment, especially for the number of games I would need to watch to get an informed opinion on an issue such as this. As I've also said before, I have a medical condition which means I cannot spend long too long at the PC. Any help you can provide in response to my question would be appreciated.

All the best.

[Jimmy Fantastic]

No idea why people would have 5 RR, it's just too much TV.
Carnis, RandomOracle and I all have 3 RR at 2k+ TV.