Why do LRB big guy star players have no negative traits?

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 4:57 pm

Quite self-explanatory question.
Formerly, big guy rookies could lose their negative traits by rolling doubles. All the star player big guys reflected this "becoming smarter and more self-disciplined with experience" by not having negative traits anymore.
Now, with the LRB, negative skill dropping is no longer possible, but the big guy stars remain the same. Why? Does this not make them even more broken?

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:03 pm

No negative traits are what makes them Stars I guess. I know some people have issues with the fact that some Stars can't be created under the current rules (Varag with Jump Up, all the secret weapon players spring to mind as well as the BGs) but these players are supposed to be unique.
And who's got $85,000 burning a hole to freeboot Morg other than very infrequently? Damn, he'd better be good for that!

slackman · Post by **slackman** » Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:29 pm

why do star big guys not have the rookie big guy trait? i really think that's rather self-explanitory. they're stars, not rookies. and, as darkson pointed out, i sure as hell am not gonna plunk down 80k for a player that plays one game, and still misses 3 turns.

slackman 42

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 9:13 am

Ok, I get your point of view, but let me explain my approach:
In my understanding the offical Star players (regardless if big guy or not) are not superstars coming out of the blue but just player that have been around a long time and gained fame and reputation. The players that began in your team as rookies and gained experience during play will one day emerge as star players as well, if they manage to survive.
So for me:
Star player = either your own homegrown player with lot of experience or just freeboot the already established ones from the cards/book

but here comes the problem, regardless how well your own created big guys play, regardless of the amounts of kills and TD they score, they will never ever be as good as the printed ones bc. of their negative traits.

Either you go the short expensive way or the long, risky way of acquiring star players, but why this bias?

So don't understand me wrong, I got your point but if you understand star players just as players with more SSP (in contrast to the understanding that they should be unique), my question makes sense, doesn't it?

Elfhater · Post by **Elfhater** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 10:29 am

The Big Guy Star Players are supposed to be singularily unique players that are far better than their fellow Big Guys. As I see it they are supposed to be the exceptions to the Rule because they are so talented.
Really, its the same for most of the Star Players. All those that have several Stat increases and/or Skills and Traits that they'd not be able to get normally are supposed to be singularily unique Players that are head and shoulders above the rest of their race.
I see your point but I think it adds to the game, having Star Players available that have skills you can't get otherwise or Big Guys missing those negative Traits.

narkotic · Post by **narkotic** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 10:40 am

ok, I understand.
I guess, then my real problem is actually not to like star players in particular...

but that's another story

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 11:55 am

narkotic wrote:ok, I understand.
I guess, then my real problem is actually not to like star players in particular... but that's another story

Since they are only freebooted now ... I don't think you'll have to worry much. My league has yet to see a star freebooted.

My league just finished its 9th round (about 150 matches played) and while we've had a ton of freebooted rookie players for games ... no stars have been freebooted to date, and only 2 wizards.

Galak

Snew · Post by **Snew** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 2:27 pm

There are many of us that don't like the Stars. Like Galak said though, they are seldom used, when they are it's a one off game and easily recovered from.

Colin · Post by **Colin** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:41 pm

Let's face it, they didn't bother changing the stats for the SPs from 3ed, that's why they don't really work with the current rules. You couldn't legally make a SP like these so the say that these ones are unique, but like it was said before it doesn't matter since SPs are only freebooted now anyway.

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 10:49 pm

GalakStarscraper wrote:
narkotic wrote:ok, I understand.
I guess, then my real problem is actually not to like star players in particular... :roll: but that's another story
Since they are only freebooted now ... I don't think you'll have to worry much. My league has yet to see a star freebooted.

My league just finished its 9th round (about 150 matches played) and while we've had a ton of freebooted rookie players for games ... no stars have been freebooted to date, and only 2 wizards.

Galak

That's because of the format of your league. In my league, freebooting star players for the finals and semi-finals has become such a big issue now (everybody does it) that i'm considering banning star players altogether.

Darkson · Post by **Darkson** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 12:40 am

slackman wrote: and, as darkson pointed out, i sure as hell am not gonna plunk down 80k for a player that plays one game, and still misses 3 turns.

slackman 42

Thanks for the name drop, slackman, but I think we better give credit to Deathwing, were it belongs

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:10 am

Zombie wrote:
That's because of the format of your league. In my league, freebooting star players for the finals and semi-finals has become such a big issue now (everybody does it) that i'm considering banning star players altogether.

Zombie, I'm curious. What kind of TRs and FF are you guys running? Is your league open or scheduled?

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:24 am

Zombie wrote: That's because of the format of your league. In my league, freebooting star players for the finals and semi-finals has become such a big issue now (everybody does it) that i'm considering banning star players altogether.

I'm not sure what you mean by that Zombie. I'm not talking about my big house rules league.

I'm talking about my LRB league. Each season is 5 games and then the playoffs (ie finals)

Season 1 ... no stars freebooted for the finals. Now Season 2 ... maybe ... we'll see when we get there.

Galak

Zombie · Post by **Zombie** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 3:26 am

Galak, i thought your league didn't have playoffs, that's why i said that.

Deathwing, our seasons last around 6-8 games depending on the number of teams registered. Then there are semi-finals and a final (and even quarter-finals when there are enough teams). You can't play more than once against each other team and all teams play the same amount of games.

The first season, we usually see stars in a couple of games during the playoffs. The second season, pretty much every team that has access to a descent big guy is fielding one almost every game for the playoffs.

Teams that have played one season are averaging about 150 TR. Teams that have played two run around 190 or so. That's after the playoffs are over. The TRs before the second season's playoffs were around 200, but they dropped from freebooting in the playoffs.

Most teams start with 9 FF and a lot of rerolls. For example, my halflings, amazons and chaos dwarves all started with 9 FF and 5 rerolls. In all cases, i almost started with 6 rerolls, but decided against it because i was afraid the 6th one might be a little useless! Other coaches over here average around 3 rerolls when starting their teams.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Sun Jan 19, 2003 2:46 pm

Zombie wrote:Galak, i thought your league didn't have playoffs, that's why i said that.

Deathwing, our seasons last around 6-8 games depending on the number of teams registered. Then there are semi-finals and a final (and even quarter-finals when there are enough teams). You can't play more than once against each other team and all teams play the same amount of games.

The first season, we usually see stars in a couple of games during the playoffs. The second season, pretty much every team that has access to a descent big guy is fielding one almost every game for the playoffs.

Teams that have played one season are averaging about 150 TR. Teams that have played two run around 190 or so. That's after the playoffs are over. The TRs before the second season's playoffs were around 200, but they dropped from freebooting in the playoffs.

Most teams start with 9 FF and a lot of rerolls. For example, my halflings, amazons and chaos dwarves all started with 9 FF and 5 rerolls. In all cases, i almost started with 6 rerolls, but decided against it because i was afraid the 6th one might be a little useless! Other coaches over here average around 3 rerolls when starting their teams.

Interesting. Frankly I'm a little surprised that teams have that kind of spare cash under the current winnings table after a season of 6-8 games.
Of course FF9's gotta help (and I'm a big believer in maxing out on FF for most league teams), and the TR drop from laying out that cash has to help winnings in the following season. Even so, surely your teams must save every penny they possibly can throughout the season for the play-offs. In my experience, attrition alone makes sitting on cash difficult under the current ruleset.
Wait, don't you guys still use AFs as well?