Alternate Apothecary System

[Xynok]

The Apothecary:

1) Must be used immediately (no change here)

2) May only be used to heal ONE BH or SI player per game

3) Any BH or SI player healed is placed in RESERVES

4) Crowd casualties CAN be healed (because of 2)

5) DEAD players always miss the rest of the game. Place them in the CAS box of the Dugout. Roll for EACH player who dies: on a 2+, the player lives, but also misses the next game, and receives a niggling injury. Otherwise, he is dead. Note you make the roll for every player who dies during the game, and is not limited to one roll as it is for BH and SI.


The only thing I'm not sure about is that if the only CAS inflicted on you during the game is a single Death, this system is worse. However, dying does indeed suck.

Reasons I feel it works:

1) Most players I know equate nigglers with death.

2) Players WILL still die.

3) Keeps teams from being utterly destroyed.

4) Generally only gives you the chance to make them an assisstant coach once you can replace them. Even a WarDancer with a Niggler is best replaced.

5) Makes the sheer luck factor of rolling mulitple 6's less severe; the player still misses the rest of the game, all of next game, and has a niggler, but at least he can still be of some use and made into a coach.

6) Regeneration works all the time, as many times as its needed. Granted, its a 50/50 shot, but if it works, the player is as good as he ever was.

Comments?

[Grumbledook]

Yer some nice ideas but where is point number 2? ;]

[GalakStarscraper]

1) Most players I know equate nigglers with death.

Just a quick note ... this goes entirely against all the research that Chet, JKL, and I did a few months back on long term BB teams under the LRB rules. I've never retired a Niggled player unless I didn't know what to do with my money (ie I had a surplus). Two Niggles maybe, but even then not definitely. Turns out that this attitude is shared by many coaches.

I'll abstain from the rest ... the only alternate rules I've used for Apothecaries made them able to be better (CJ rules for upgraded apothecaries) not worse.

Galak

[Munkey]

I don't know any player that equates a Niggle with Death.

I don't think there is really any need to upgrade the apothecary rules.

IMO the thing that caused the destruction of teams, especially before the new casulty table and IGMEOY was excessive modifiers to armour and injury rolls causing too many SIs and Deaths.

[Xynok]

They aren't worse unless you only receive a single death. Otherwise, it is MUCH better.

The reason I mention that people equate Nigglers with death is that some people do feel this way, and therefore there is still a downside. The point is to give an alternative to multiple deaths while not making death meaningless, and allowing them to heal crowd casualties.

Multiple deaths still happen frequently, even if they aren't fouling or using Piling On/RSC, etc.

[Ghost of Pariah]

Better?

Well if you don't like player turnover and love niggling injuries then I guess so.

I don't think it's better. Do you know how hard it's going to be to get rid of those blodgey wardancers?

[Xynok]

Indeed I do.

Do you know how fun it is to have 2 developed Human Blitzers DEAD, one miss having ST2 ONLY via the Apoth, and the 4th be SI-Miss Next, all by TURN THREE vs. another human team with a TR only 4 higher, ALL from straight up rolls (no skills - MB/PO etc)?

That happened to me last night. Granted, it was severe luck, but still. At least my proposed system gave them a chance to bounce back in a reasonable time.

As far as the WD issue, my system makes it EASIER to get rid of them, because Death means they are out the rest of the game no matter what...nothing else changes. So what is your problem exactly?

[Vitalis]

As far as the WD issue, my system makes it EASIER to get rid of them, because Death means they are out the rest of the game no matter what...nothing else changes. So what is your problem exactly?

Well...

I think I'm able to answer this one:

Getting rid of == Terminated == Gone to see it's maker == Pushing up the daisies from below == being and EX-wardancer

[Ghost of Pariah]

Yeah, my problem is that when they just miss one game they'll be back earning spp's in no time and be that much harder to stop the next time.

What's wrong with what happened to your team? You got some tough luck but only have 2 dead players. So you got an ass whippin'? First time? I'd rather my players died than to have them linger on and on like the current system (and your system) let's them do. I hate downgrading my own team. I'd rather my players went out in a blaze of glory.

[Snew]

I'd like to see apothecaries worse, not better. No apothecaries wouldn't bother me a bit.

[Korhil]

To me a Niggle = Death.
If I've got the gold, the Niggled player will be out it quite order, not point keeping your TR up for players that never turn up.

And, when I've decided to keep a Niggled player for a while cos it has +St or something, he never turns up anyway, so he might as well have been fired in the first place.

If it can fail, it will fail... Murphy was an Optimist

---Korhil

[BudsBalkan]

First, Niggle equals not death!

My proposal:

Change point 5 into : if you roll 2+, the dead result is converted into a SI. So you had to ascertain the explicit Injury.

So the only point to discuss is, may the apo is allowed zo heal this SI.
My opinion: He is not allowed.

Sorry for my bad english.

cya
BudsBalkan

[Marcus]

I'm dead against off-pitch healing. Apoths should take place on pitch immediately as normal.

This allows for tactical use of apothecaries in the dying turns of a game (to heal stuns etc). There is no good reason I can think of this should be removed apart for fluff reasons. IMO it keeps the game more exciting and expands the tactical options available to a coach, which can only be a good thing.

[Marcus]

Don't mind me, I'm an idiot and I can't read.

[Xynok]

First off, I disagree that players with nigglers will simply "be off earning SPPs in no time." This is assuming they even play, which is a very BIG assumption. Factor in the fact that they miss the rest of the game, and ALL of the next game to boot, and you have done your job and got your SPPs...what more do you want? You aren't satisfied unless you KILL the player? Players will STILL die. This niggler is in addition to any other niggler the player has. Once a player gets TWO nigglers, you are nuts if you keep them on your roster. For any given game, the odds of taking out these god players you are so concerned with is exactly the SAME as it always is. The only difference is they will remain in the league a BIT longer, so people will have to EARN getting rid of them on their OWN, instead of relying on someone elses LUCK to do it FOR them. Again, this assumes the niggler even allows the god player to play in the frist place, which is a LARGE assumption.

All that said, I have amended my intital system. Everything works as I indicated, EXCEPT death still works like BH or SI (ie you can heal a death as normal if you haven't used your apoth).

So:

1) Must be used immediately to heal ONE BH, SI, or DEAD
2) Healed Players go to Reserves <change from LRB>
3) Crowd Cas CAN be healed <change from LRB>

My new system simply allows the following:

Assuming you own an apothecary, if you have already used it as normal, and you suffer a DEAD result, roll a D6. On a 2+, the player lives, but misses the rest of the game, the next game, and receives a niggler. (Perhaps the roll could be 4+, or 50/50, like Regeneration...only nowhere NEAR as good, as it only works on DEAD, and you miss games and get a niggler) If playing Undead, their Necromancer's Raise Dead chance takes precedence over the Apothecary in this scenario (but not normally...ie if you haven't used yours as normal).

Players will STILL die, I assure you. Good players will hang on rosters a bit longer, but won't play as often. Once they get a 2nd niggler, they really won't play as often. The main concern with this focuses on DEVELOPED players like War Dancer, etc. Well, by the time a DEAD result is significant to these players, they will likely have aged or be very close to aging, not to mention any past injuries they've had over their career. My system keeps teams from being destroyed in their first 10 games. After this, that extra niggler IS VERY significant, and I honestly cannot believe anyone could feel otherwise. Granted, the player isn't DEAD, but he's getting REAL close to being as good as.

I appreciate the criticism, as it makes me think about things more, and I understand why people are concerned with my system. Still, I don't think many here are putting enough weight on nigglers, and I'm not sure why. Apparently you've been very fortunate on your niggler rolls, while I and most I play with are simply really unlucky? The difference between outright KILLING a player, and sticking him with his 2nd (or more) niggler, is only the difference in having the player simply gone, and having another assisstant coach. This is simply my experienced opinion.