The Definitive(?) Pass Block Thread

Icedman · Post by **Icedman** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 4:35 am

Hi guys,
Got a bit of a debate going on in my current league about the wonderful

skill tht is Pass Block. The argument is arising about under what circumstances the skill can be used.

Now, I jumped on here when we had the discussion, and after looking through about 4-5 pages of this particular forum, I couldn't find my answer. So, I've decided to put (hopefully) all of the extenuating circumstances surrounding Pass Block into 1 easy-to-find thread.

Pass Block Use 1:

When your opponent declares a Pass action during his turn

Obviously yes, as this is what the skill was intended to do.

Pass Block Use 2:

You block/blitz an opposing player who has the Dump Off skill, and want to block the pass

The thread I found for this one is here, and I believe the consensus is that you can.

Pass Block Use 3:

Your opponent declares a Hand Off during their turn

This is the debate topic of our little group. I've been told that I can't PB it (I'm the only one in the league that has PB), and I could've done it on 2 occaisions now; 1 of which I know would've at least sucked a RR, and possibly even given me that game. I can't find an answer on the forum, so I've decided to put the question out there.

Oh yeah, 1 or 2 of the guys are saying that the opinions of people on these forums may/should not really be taken as gospel regarding BB, so if a BBRC member or 2 could drop in with an opinion, one way or the other, it would be appreciated. Also, if anyone else can come up with situations where Pass Block might be used, let me/us know.

Thnx in advance guys.

PS: I thik PB can be used in all 3 situations, as a Hand Off is described as "...a type of very short pass..."

PPS: If something doesn't work (the thread title, the URL, or something else), let me know why, as this is the first thread I've started.

Khrys_Antos · Post by **Khrys_Antos** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 4:51 am

I'd say yes to 1 and 2. Dump-Off is a pass, so pass block would work. That's how I do it in our league.

As far as number three is concerned, the LRB says that its considered an action. The short pass reference is fluff in the paragraph. The pass block states specifically that you can only use it when you declare a pass action, handing off is therefore a hand-off action, not a pass. So I'd say no to number three. That's how I interpret it anyways.

Check Pass Block, LRB p.36
And hand-off actions, LRB p.20

Hope this helps.

gold_penguin · Post by **gold_penguin** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 5:27 am

Khrys_Antos wrote: As far as number three is concerned, the LRB says that its considered an action. The short pass reference is fluff in the paragraph. The pass block states specifically that you can only use it when you declare a pass action, handing off is therefore a hand-off action, not a pass.

The LRB actually says that you can pass block when the other player announces that one of their players will pass the ball, not when they are making a pass action. Otherwise your logic about pass blocking a dump off wouldn't work, as you don't declare a pass action to make the dump off, you just do a quick pass.

I have to say I am not sure on the ruling for this. It could be that the description of the hand off as a type of very short pass means that they are making a pass when they hand-off, or it could be that it is, as they say in the courts, mere fluff, and holds no weight.

High & Mighty · Post by **High & Mighty** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 6:18 am

They're all on the list to be clarified by the BBRC so you should have your answers any day now.

http://www.blood-bowl.net/BBRC_HotList.html

*Better clarification of the whole Passing/Catching sequence (when is the interception roll made, when does Pass Block get used).

*Clarify with both Throw Team-Mate and Pass Block which skills can be used in conjuction with them.

*Can a Dump Off be Pass Blocked? Also clarify in the Dump Off skill that the pass can or cannot be intercepted.

*Jump Up be allowed to be used with Pass Block (given that Jump Up is now a trait, it seems pretty worthless ... this gives it a little boost)

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 8:59 am

From the Rules FAQ:

Can PassBlock be used against a Hand Off ?
A Pass is a Pass. A Hand-off is a Hand-off. You can PBlock passes; you can't PBlock hand-offs. -Chet

Tamper Magnitude · Post by **Tamper Magnitude** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 9:14 am

I would have said that it's stunningly obvious that you can't pass block a hand-off, as it's not a pass.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 9:34 am

Tamper Magnitude wrote:I would have said that it's stunningly obvious that you can't pass block a hand-off, as it's not a pass.

Well, normally I'd agree, but it's that phrase " counts as a type of very short pass" which causes confusion, and I've seen it come up too often now. It's badly worded, no question.
viewtopic.php?t=1947

Marcus · Post by **Marcus** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 9:47 am

No, it's not badly worded, it's a sensible way to describe the action so people can get a handle on how it's played. The only problem is some fools will say "since it's like a pass you can pass block it!" without actually engaging their common sense first.

There are 1000s of badly worded rules in the naked city, this is not one of them.

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 10:40 am

Marcus wrote:No, it's not badly worded, it's a sensible way to describe the action so people can get a handle on how it's played. The only problem is some fools will say "since it's like a pass you can pass block it!" without actually engaging their common sense first.

There are 1000s of badly worded rules in the naked city, this is not one of them.

Like I said, once upon a time I'd have agreed with you. If it ain't badly written, then why does it keep coming up again and again?
"The hand-off counts as an 'accurate pass'"..and.."..a hand off is a type of very Short pass".
Now you and me might well grasp the intent (and the context it's written in), but that has to be confusing for newbs. I don't think there's any need to refer to a 'pass' at all. Why not just add: 'Recieving a hand off +1' to the list of modifiers. The use of Catch is covered in the skill description.
What it basically says now is that 'it counts as an accurate pass for recieving (and turnover) purposes but not for Pass Block, interception or SPP purposes'.
It's not a Pass, ergo; it shouldn't be referred to as a 'Pass', in any way shape or form. The proof that it's confusing is that it keeps confusing people!

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 10:47 am

Yer its confusing Longfang kept on declairing passes against spyke and then doing hand offs ;]

Deathwing · Post by **Deathwing** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 11:05 am

Grumbledook wrote:Yer its confusing Longfang kept on declairing passes against spyke and then doing hand offs ;]

LOL! He always does that. It's a legacy of playing 4e Gold when you could declare 2 passes a turn, one that ended with a pass and one that ended with a hand-off.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 12:06 pm

High & Mighty wrote:They're all on the list to be clarified by the BBRC so you should have your answers any day now.

http://www.blood-bowl.net/BBRC_HotList.html

Chet and JKL both told me that the BBRC went through and discussed the entire list before and after Andy's baby was born, so I agree that we should have the answers very soon.

Galak

Icedman · Post by **Icedman** » Sun Dec 15, 2002 3:02 am

Hi again,
For those who may think I'm a little thick, or a newb, I've been playing the game since the release of 3rd Ed; I do have SOME idea of what I'm talking about (at least I hope so).

Anyway, the reason I ask about PB and Handoffs is NOT (i repeat NOT to attempt to intercept the ball (how exactly does one intercept a ball being handed from one guy to another

), which seems to be what you guys think I'm wanting to do, when in fact I wnat to know whether or not you can use PB to put a tackle zone on the receiver. THIS is why I asked, not for some really, really cheap attempt to pluck a ball.

Sorry if I'm sounding a little offensive, it's been a long weekend

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Sun Dec 15, 2002 10:23 am

If you can't use pass block to intercept you can't use it at all afaiac. Its not a pass and pass off can only be used against passes.

sean newboy · Post by **sean newboy** » Sun Dec 15, 2002 10:31 am

Wrong Grumbledook, it specifically says u can use it to put either the catcher or passer into a tz. Personally i believe u should be able to put a tz on the catcher of a handoff, heavens knows its done enuf in us football.