SPP for completions, point of contentio

[Sceadeau]

Is a bouncing ball that results from an accurate pass being dropped (or landing in an empty square), still an accurate pass?

Absolutely without question it is.

So, by this...even if I drop the ball, all other attempts to catch the ball are still at +1 for accurate pass?

I'm just trying to get clarification here.

[Rozman]

So, by this...even if I drop the ball, all other attempts to catch the ball are still at +1 for accurate pass?

I'm just trying to get clarification here.

For purposes of the SPP: a pass is accurate if you roll well enough on the Pass roll.

For the purposes of a Catch: you receive +1 to Catch if you are attempting to field an accurate pass. Once the Catch has failed, it becomes a bouncing ball and no longer bestows a +1 to Catch.

The discrepency is that the SPP test is "was the pass accurate" not "was the caught ball accurate." They end up being 2 different animals.

The question I have is:

I throw an accurate pass to an empty square/opponent. One of my players ends up with the ball before it comes to rest. Does my Thrower get the SPP?

The way I'm reading the SPP rule, I do.

[Snew]

You do. The pass was accurate and it was caught by a member of the moving team. That's worth one SPP.

[Korhil]

Its clear.
Zombie and Galak show how clear it is.

The biggest problem with the rules is people that read more words than are in the rules to be read.
Its not about 'realism' its about them being the rules

---Korhil

[Gattolardo]

Logic would suggest that, for the SPP's sake, only the pass must be accurate, and it doesn't matter if the ball is catched or not by the other fella, so the second line in the ruling is somewhat ridicolous.
But then imagine, without the second line, the number of throwers that, in end of half situations or facing not-so-critical turnovers, would throw the ball in totally empty zone of the field or, even more irrealistically, to mummies or trolls or surrounded players, claiming SPP for pass completition......

So, I do agree with Zombie and Galak.

You roll to pass, if you are accurate and get the SPP only if the pass is not hopeless.... the second line is there only to prevent beardy situations... so no prob with a bouncing ball....

Cheers
Rob

[Snew]

Logic would suggest that, for the SPP's sake, only the pass must be accurate, and it doesn't matter if the ball is catched or not by the other fella, so the second line in the ruling is somewhat ridicolous.
But then imagine, without the second line, the number of throwers that, in end of half situations or facing not-so-critical turnovers, would throw the ball in totally empty zone of the field or, even more irrealistically, to mummies or trolls or surrounded players, claiming SPP for pass completition......

So, I do agree with Zombie and Galak.

You roll to pass, if you are accurate and get the SPP only if the pass is not hopeless.... the second line is there only to prevent beardy situations... so no prob with a bouncing ball....

Cheers
Rob

So you propose that a thrower that throws an accurate pass to an empty square within short pass range should get an SPP? You can only imagine what I think of that idea because most of it isn't printable.

[Gattolardo]

So you propose that a thrower that throws an accurate pass to an empty square within short pass range should get an SPP?

You must be jocking man....
Actually that's EXACTLY the beardy situation I was referring to, if the second line of the ruling wasn't there...

I simply said that while the accurate pass would be complete once the thrower made the actual pass, no matter if the other fella did catch it or no, the "Must be caught by a memeber of the same tema" was added for the sole purpose to avoid the situation I outlined. So the pass is accurate the moment the thrower made it, but the SPP gain is "validated" only after a member of the same team ahs the ball in his hands...after the ball bounced or not...

You can only imagine what I think of that idea because most of it isn't printable.

I completely agree with you my old snot....
Nothing would be more unprintable that than my though about this situation, like many others I saw posted here and there...

Cheers
Rob

[Snew]

Whew! What a relief. I've always enjoyed your posts and I thought the Fatcat had lost his mind.

[Gattolardo]

Never be that the Fatcat grows a beard!!!


Obviously, I was only trying to justify a rule that many see to penalize good passers (who happens to play with a bunch of muppets )


Cheers
Rob

[Pitch Dark]

The arrogance of ppl.. To anyone and all that claims that this is perfectly clear, this very topic should suggest to you that thats obvioulsy not the case. Sherlock!

As for myself i know the official take on this, but i still agree with redfang, it COULD be read in an other manner.

"COMPLETIONS (COMP): A player who makes an accurate pass that is caught by another player earns 1 Star Player point. An accurate pass is called a 'completion' or complete pass. Note that the ball must be caught by a player from the same team, otherwise it is not complete!"

It could be read that that once the ball has hit the ground, the accurate pass is infact NOT caught by another player. Even if the bouncing ball was caught, the pass was not. There is also circumstancial evidence for this, pointed out by someone, you dont get the +1 modifier for accurate pass when picking up the bouncing ball.

And to anyone that refers to logic, dosent it make more logic that you only get starplayerpoints if you actually succeed with what you wanted, ie move the ball from player A to player B. (and not accidentely to player C).

Anyways, all I wanted to say is that dont be so dogmatic about it. I for one can see that there might be another way to read it, even though i play it the way galak propose.

[Gattolardo]

...And to anyone that refers to logic, dosent it make more logic that you only get starplayerpoints if you actually succeed with what you wanted, ie move the ball from player A to player B. (and not accidentely to player C)...

Partially....
actually I believe that a pass is complete once it hits the target player....
But that's my point of view and I an the first to admit that rules interpretation is, sometimes, in the eye of the beholder....

That's why this forum is online........

Cheers
Rob

[Stad]

The arrogance of ppl.. To anyone and all that claims that this is perfectly clear, this very topic should suggest to you that thats obvioulsy not the case. Sherlock!

As for myself i know the official take on this, but i still agree with redfang, it COULD be read in an other manner.

"COMPLETIONS (COMP): A player who makes an accurate pass that is caught by another player earns 1 Star Player point. An accurate pass is called a 'completion' or complete pass. Note that the ball must be caught by a player from the same team, otherwise it is not complete!"

It could be read that that once the ball has hit the ground, the accurate pass is infact NOT caught by another player. Even if the bouncing ball was caught, the pass was not. There is also circumstancial evidence for this, pointed out by someone, you dont get the +1 modifier for accurate pass when picking up the bouncing ball.

And to anyone that refers to logic, dosent it make more logic that you only get starplayerpoints if you actually succeed with what you wanted, ie move the ball from player A to player B. (and not accidentely to player C).

I agree with you completely. It has never come up in any of my leagues other than that passing receives SPPs only if the ball is caught by a fellow teammember. You have a better chance to catch it if its accurate, but SPP's are rewarded if inaccurate passes get caught by opposing players. Thats why diving catch is so helpful.

If the ball bounces, it is a turnover, unless it bounces and is caught by someone in the endzone. (well still their turn is over) It scares me to no end what my group would do if you got SPP's for rolling high for an accurate pass. Sure its an accurate pass, but if the catcher messes up well its a turnover and no SPP, regardless if a fellow teammate picks it up.

My 2 cents

[grotemuis]

Well, considering the length of the discussion here, it is not clear.
I always thought that you did get the SPP's but reading the arguments here and carefully rereading the rules made me doubt it. If it is clear except to a select few, it should be real easy for the BBRC to just make it that more by putting down that once sentence necessary to make it crystal. If it is not clear to the people in the BBRC (thus, if they have different opinions on the matter); it is necessary to discuss and clarify it.

R

for once i agree with Redfang, everyone says it's clear. But allmost everyone i know, has read it differently (isn't that a coincidence).

My problem is if a ball is not caught and bounces(i.e. it hits the ground and bounces back), it could never be called a complete pass.

[Snew]

My problem is if a ball is not caught and bounces(i.e. it hits the ground and bounces back), it could never be called a complete pass.

This isn't the NFL. Very loosely based, maybe, but not even close. The problem here is that you're thinking of a complete pass in sports terms you see and know on TV, not Blood Bowl terms. In BB a complete pass is any one that ends up in the hands of one of your teammates before it comes to rest. It doesn't matter if it's gone out of bounds 10 times and hit the ground just as many. If it's still moving, it's a completion.

[Zombie]

Yeah, the same way that in football, if it touches the ground, the play stops, while in blood bowl, it continues as long as someone from your team has it when it comes to rest. Logically, this and the SPP rule go hand in hand.