Vampire/Bloodlust queries

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:51 am

Actually I think to keep Block actions consistent the bite needs to be before the block is made - otherwise you get all sorts of messes.

The simplest thing would be to change the text to "..attempts to block, pass or hand off..." however that doesn't work for blitz actions. So the simplest thing to say is either

1) Block actions automatically convert to move actions
2) Add an extra sentence saying "If performing a Block Action the block may only be performed after biting a thrall".

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 9:52 am

And since this is experiement rules it isn't really a rules query...

halinn · Post by **halinn** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:39 am

I like how you can block before biting, as that gives you a chance of positioning if you get a push. It could just be added in a parenthesis or in the FAQ that you can block before bite.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:24 pm

ianwilliams wrote:Actually I think to keep Block actions consistent the bite needs to be before the block is made - otherwise you get all sorts of messes.

The simplest thing would be to change the text to "..attempts to block, pass or hand off..." however that doesn't work for blitz actions. So the simplest thing to say is either

1) Block actions automatically convert to move actions
2) Add an extra sentence saying "If performing a Block Action the block may only be performed after biting a thrall".

Sorry Ian ... I disagree. Allowing them to block doesn't cause any issues.

If you want to clean up the one "issue" just add in a couple words that the Vampire needs to be standing to bite. A lot easier than moving the block to the list of befores.

Galak

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:51 am

Tom - but it just feels very inconsistent to me. You can't hand off without biting, so why can you block?

Making the block after the bite makes Blood Lust just a titsy bit worse but given the boost we've otherwise given vamps it shouldn't be an issue. I think its a much cleaner rule too.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:18 am

If you want it that clean then why not put the bite before moving too.

I think there is no need to change this.
Cheers
Martin

Post by **voyagers_uk** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:33 am

I almost want to give Passblock to a Vamp if he got an +AG upgrade, but this would still be an action (correct?) and means I could potentially lose a Thrall in my opponents turn with him doing nothing.

plasmoid · Post by **plasmoid** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:43 am

Nope - passblock is not an action.

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:54 am

ianwilliams wrote:Tom - but it just feels very inconsistent to me. You can't hand off without biting, so why can you block?

Making the block after the bite makes Blood Lust just a titsy bit worse but given the boost we've otherwise given vamps it shouldn't be an issue. I think its a much cleaner rule too.

No making the block after the bite is a mess because if its a blitz than you've ended the blitz action. If its a block then does he get to follow up? What if he has Frenzy?

No way ... moving the bite to before the block is a complete rules can of worms.

The only reason we moved hand-off and pass to before the bite was to avoid a blood lusted vampire from scoring without biting. No reason to compound the issue.

The way simpler answer that does not cause rules mess like moving the block does is just to clarify that the Vampire must be standing to bite.

Galak

SBG · Post by **SBG** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 12:03 am

But I do think it would be much simpler if the rule always worked the same, i.e. bite before action. So before Blocking, passing, handing off, blitzing and fouling I guess.

Fred

Post by **GalakStarscraper** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:12 am

SBG wrote:But I do think it would be much simpler if the rule always worked the same, i.e. bite before action. So before Blocking, passing, handing off, blitzing and fouling I guess.

Fred

The rules confusion of an action ending in the middle of a block would be a NIGHTMARE.

So I just totally disagree that any other item needs added to the list if I'm 100% against adding blocking.

Galak

Post by **DoubleSkulls** » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:11 am

I was saying for a Block Action you must bite before making the block. Blitz actions are unaffected.

gandresch · Post by **gandresch** » Thu May 07, 2009 2:33 pm

Hi,

ok, Handoff, Pass and TD always after the bite, the rest before it - i can live with that and i think it's a good rule. But one block-situation above is not clearly managed and i'll explain a nearly equal situation, that just happened in a game:
A vampire has the ball and runs to the endzone. He has failed his OfaB roll and has to bite a thrall. The thrall is waiting for the vamp at the endzone. Now the vamp has to gfi one time, to reach the endzone and a thrall earlier that turn used the team reroll on a doubleskull. So there was no reroll left for the turn. OF COURSE he fails the gfi and falls right into the endzone, but closed to a thrall.
The failed gfi is a turnover, but what about Bloodlust? Does the vamp have to bite the thrall or is he send off or ... just happens nothing else, because he failed the gfi and the turnover happened before he should do his bite.

Greetz,
gan

Grumbledook · Post by **Grumbledook** » Thu May 07, 2009 2:35 pm

he can't bite the thrall because he is prone

so it is a turnover and the vampire goes to the dugout

iirc bloodlust says you have to be standing next to a thrall (though the thrall can be prone or stunned, it is the vamp that has to be standing)

SBG · Post by **SBG** » Fri May 08, 2009 4:24 pm

OK, so just to make sure:

Block actions become Move actions;
For Hand-offs, Passes and scoring, you got to bite before completing your action;
You can Blitz then bite? That means valuable assisting potential. We played bite before before blocking part of the Blitz.

What about fouling? I know it sounds stupid to foul with a Vamp, but what about it? Before or after Foul?
Fred