On the matter of Frenzy

[DoubleSkulls]

in your opinion, if a player with 'Frenzy'-trait blocks an opponent and chooses *not* to use this trait

IMO you can't choose not to use Frenzy.

[stone]

Yes, I see your point. The reason we have played it the way I explained, is that in our games you can opt for not to use Frenzy (as any other skill or trait) if you want. Which is not the case in your games, i quess. But why you compare Frenzy with Bonehead, I don't quite grasp... Bonehead is a racial charachteristic and Frenzy is a trait Ah, well, you play the great game your way, we play it our way.

[GalakStarscraper]

As for whether the use of Frenzy on the first block is optional or not .... that is a question I'm waiting for the BBRC to answer from the review. I've heard two VERY different opinions on this one and I'll be very curious to see the final answer from the committee.

Galak

Damn, I'm slow... This kind of clears it up -> it is not clear, right...

Correct ... IMO Frenzy and all traits should be ALWAYS ON meaning while you can choose not to use a skill that should not be said with a trait.

HOWEVER, I just came from UCon, where the official rule of the tournament was that Frenzy was optional (BBRC member(s) were present). On the other side of the fence are BBRC member(s) saying that traits are always on. Look guys, the BBRC is a group of coaches. While I usually agree with some coaches on how things should work ... there are cases where we are just going to disagree.

So this one is in the hotly contested pile of the BBRC. I currently have no idea whatsoever how this argument is going (well I have some ideas but I'm not trusting the source). If traits become optional, then Wild Animal becomes much much less of a negative skill as if you see the 2nd block would be bad, you just declare before the first block that you are not using Frenzy. HOWEVER, I see this leading to WW 3 in some leagues when a player forgets to say whether he is or isn't and then declares after rolling the dice and the opponent raises h*ll. That is until the commish puts down a ruling of ... you are always using or never using Frenzy unless you declare otherwise ... but did BB really need this???

This is a soapbox one for me as I see many negatives from traits being optional and very few positives. However, like you I wait patiently (???) for the review which I was told at UCon was two weeks away from being announced .... (that timeline like bloodbowl.net being live appears to need adjustment .. ).

Oh and last note, I'm glad the BBRC exists. Someone needs to do this job and a body of 7 is better than Jervis and Andy (TRUST ME!!!!). Its a thankless job but I'm glad they volunteer to take the abuse.

Galak

[DoubleSkulls]

Yes, I see your point. The reason we have played it the way I explained, is that in our games you can opt for not to use Frenzy (as any other skill or trait) if you want. Which is not the case in your games, i quess. But why you compare Frenzy with Bonehead, I don't quite grasp... Bonehead is a racial charachteristic and Frenzy is a trait Ah, well, you play the great game your way, we play it our way.

IMO the rules are clear enough. Normally you can choose to use traits or skills. Frenzy is an exception, as dealt with in its own description that overrides the main set of rules.

So I believe that playing it another way constitutes a house rule.

[Grumbledook]

Yes i agree with ian. Coincidentially (sp) me and my mates always played that it was always active, no one even thought about having the choice of only making the one block, that includes the players who had the frenzy skill. (This was 3rd edition)

[Zombie]

also on the matter of Frenzy...

Jervis rules that:

IMPORTANT CHANGE: Players with Frenzy must take a block or blitz action if they are standing up themselves and there is a opponent in an adjacent square. If armed with a secret weapon they may attack with that instead.

Ruled in Blood Bowl Magazine, issue 2, page 5.

Footnote: this was the old version of Frenzy. Basically anything printed in BB Mag #1 or #2 never really existed. So this statement isn't true for the current rules.

Damn! I would have liked to know that about 8 months ago, as it cost me the semi-final when my bull centaur with the ball had to follow up and was left standing in a tackle zone he couldn't dodge away from with his miserable AG2.

[Thadrin]

You mean there are people who DON'T play Frenzy as "always on-have to follow up-have to take second block and that's why you have to be VERY careful with it sometimes"?

I was under the impression Frenzy was a trait and therfore was on whether you liked it or not. You want to take a trait that gives you a second block you pay the price. That's why the Slayer on my team who rolled doubles for his second skill roll took Stand Firm in a heartbeat.

[stone]

IMO the rules are clear enough. Normally you can choose to use traits or skills. Frenzy is an exception, as dealt with in its own description that overrides the main set of rules.

So I believe that playing it another way constitutes a house rule.

Hmmm... Now, I see your point. "Unless stated otherwise in the skill description..." I think I'll suggest that our league starts to use Frenzy as 'always on'. Kind of glad I didn't take frenzy for my orc blitzer yesterday...

[Snew]

he,he,he... nothing more fun than watching your frenzied player dive into the dugout after his victim!

Does anyone else play that a Frenzied player will leave the pitch to follow up on a push? To me this just sounds ludicrous.

That's why the Slayer on my team who rolled doubles for his second skill roll took Stand Firm in a heartbeat.

How is Stand Firm going to help your Frenzied player? If you're referring to the "He may completely ignore 'Push Back' results..." it's an interesting way of looking at it and I guess it's legal. It just feels weird to me. That said, I can see one Trait taking some of the negative out of another. Thanks for bringing that up.

Yep, and accordingly the second skill for a witch elf has to be Side Step (after Block, of course).

Sorry martynq, this isn't the same thing as the Stand Firm description I mentioned above. The skill description specifically says, "when he is pushed back". that can only happen as a result of a block thrown against him. It doesn't include the "Push Back" of a block he threw because it was against someone else.

[Skummy]

I think that they meant Frenzied players will follow up next to the sideline after pushing a player into the crowd. They are then very vulnerable to a crowd-surfing experience themselves. Stand Firm or Sidestep are useful skills to keep this from happening.

[Snew]

Err... I get it now.

Still, the SF description give me lots of rules abuse possibilities.

[kaboom]

U HAVE TO FOLLOW UP; in the contrary, frenzy could be one's of ultimates comp.
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[Snew]

What?!?

[Zombie]

Don't mind him, he doesn't know English. Best to ignore him than to try and understand, only to find yourself bordering insanity after a while!

[Joaquim]

grimfang wrote:
he,he,he... nothing more fun than watching your frenzied player dive into the dugout after his victim!


Does anyone else play that a Frenzied player will leave the pitch to follow up on a push? To me this just sounds ludicrous.

Wait a second... isn't a follow up a move to the square left empty by the blocked player? How can this be off the pitch?!? As soon as he get's out of pitch he just isn't there for the Frenzy player throw a second block...


Anyone can explain this to me? Or at least try, as I'm a little slow...