Touchdown or not?!?

[Longshot]

I think IP rule is usefull for newbies but after not for experienced players.
Not calling IP and just tell your opponent to upgrade turn is Fair Play for me. I dont mean Fair play in BB but Fair play between the 2 Human person that play.

ANYWAY=====================>TOUCHDOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dakkakhan]

Two things:

1. I love IP, it rarely makes a difference in a game, becuase A. you normally remember. and B. you usually have a re-roll handy to correct the occasional goof. But in those nip and tuck situations when everything is on the line, it is awesome to look over and see that your opponent hasn't moved it along, and it is shear agony for your opponent to call it on you! That's what makes it great.

2. I think it is totally lame to sit here and quote rules to me. I appreciate the help, but I have my own copy of the rules. Ithilkar I wasn't arguing the fact of what the rulebook states. I even stated that the written rule does in fact state that IP can be called only after a player moved at least one square. If the rules were as clear as simply quoting what they say TBB would be done and we could all rest easy because "LRB". Problem solved.

[Nagash]

Two things:

1. I love IP, it rarely makes a difference in a game, becuase A. you normally remember. and B. you usually have a re-roll handy to correct the occasional goof. But in those nip and tuck situations when everything is on the line, it is awesome to look over and see that your opponent hasn't moved it along, and it is shear agony for your opponent to call it on you! That's what makes it great.

2. I think it is totally lame to sit here and quote rules to me. I appreciate the help, but I have my own copy of the rules. Ithilkar I wasn't arguing the fact of what the rulebook states. I even stated that the written rule does in fact state that IP can be called only after a player moved at least one square. If the rules were as clear as simply quoting what they say TBB would be done and we could all rest easy because "LRB". Problem solved.

Excuse me for asking - but what is your problem then?!

you say: The guy did not follow the rules and you give him a TD?

then Ithilkir quotes the rules... which are clear on the matter....

then you say: I think it is totally lame to sit here and quote rules to me. I appreciate the help, but I have my own copy of the rules. Ithilkar I wasn't arguing the fact of what the rulebook states. I even stated that the written rule does in fact state that IP can be called only after a player moved at least one square. If the rules were as clear as simply quoting what they say TBB would be done and we could all rest easy because "LRB". Problem solved.

What are you arguing?!?! Sry mate bt I´m sure he didn´t quote the rules to offend you....

[Remco]

I understand the rule in the LRB, but my point is exactly what dakkakhan wrote: he made an error, and in any other situation he would be punished for it. If was 2 squares from the End Zone, the call for an IP was perfectly legal and he shouldn't have gotten his TD. I thought the point of IP was NOT to forget your turnmarker and punish you for not complying. If you allow the TD, the intent of the rule is missed. And THAT (IMNHO) is why so many other rules are debated here, because the wording of the rule doesn't completely cover the intent.

(Side note: we played he didn't get it, but I failed a dodge roll on turn 8, so he ended up scoring anyway)

[Grumbledook]

I didn't think IP was put in just for punishment purposes, its a good way to make sure both players keep the right turn tracked.

if he had moved anyone else b4 the td player he might not have got the td b4 the call.

You can call for the IP anytime during the turn if they still havn't moved the marker. This means they might have moved a couple of players before you have called it. This doesn't mean they have to move everyone back. IP wasn't put in to cancel turns, what if both players didn't move markers along, you might get an extra turn at the end of the game which could cause arguements, especially if someone scores. I see it more as a way to keep the turn marker moving along than any thing else.

[dakkakhan]

Since you asked Nagash I suppose I'll tell you:

I'm sure the rules lawyers will say the square moved scored a TD, but it is the intent of the coach that counts. What if he just picks up his player and starts setting up for a kickoff? Did he move him or not? did the guy actually touch the endzone? That's why the letter of the rule doesn't match it's intent. The intent is that moving your turn marker MUST be the first thing you do every turn.

My earlier post clearly indicates I am aware of what the Rules say and that in my opinion it is a matter of intent rather than a matter of english. If the the coach grabs any of his players and is moving them without moving his turnmarker it is a turnover. In this case there was no room for the rule to activate because the written text would allow for the one square which, in this case, would give the desired effect, a Touchdown.

[Ithilkir]

I think it is totally lame to sit here and quote rules to me.

Actually, it was a general statement and my opinion. It was not directed towards you in anyway.

And for the record this is the "Rules Queries" forum. If it's 'lame' to quote rules here then what's the point hmmm?

[McDeth]

personally i dont care how the rules are interpreted on this one, it's a TD whether i'm receiving or defending. I'd be too embarrassed to actually call an illegal procedure unless it happened about 5 turns on the trot, and i hope that in the circumstances i would be above using such a lame ploy.

[Mestari]

My impression has been that the IP rules were there to teach people to use that turn marker, which was originally forgotten all the time.

However, what comes to calling for IP, I agree with McDeths standpoint.

[Nagash]

I think it is totally lame to sit here and quote rules to me.

Actually, it was a general statement and my opinion. It was not directed towards you in anyway.

And for the record this is the "Rules Queries" forum. If it's 'lame' to quote rules here then what's the point hmmm?

hehehe - couldn´t have said it better.... you scottish git!

[Erix]

Let me quoute a houserule we used to play with. Taken from Chess (not the musical) I believe:
If you touch a player you have to move him.

And for that matter an opponent touching a player without moving his turn marker would prompt evil gits like me to shout "illegal action" which would then start the argument if you have to shout "illegal procedure" or if "illegal action" was good enough.
5 hours later and 12 new house rules later the game would end. And both coaches were looking forward to the next match.

So if you need it to be fair, make a house rule that your turn is considered started when you touch a player. Otherwise you have to stick to the rules.

FYI I hardly ever call IP anymore, because I got Illegal Action on my mind .

Erix

[McDeth]

If my opponent forgets to move his marker i'll move it for him before he gets chance to make a move. In that way it never becomes an issue.

As so rightly stated its a way for inexperienced players to learn the game or you could easily lose track and end up playing ten turns per half, but when an experienced coach is teaching/playing abaginst a new player i cant think of a worse way of intorducing him to the game by starting to call illegal procedure/ illegal action call it whatever you like, just correct him and let him get on with the game, hopefully the wiser

[Darkson]

When we first started playing our league we always called IP and enforced the 4min turn rule rigously. Now, when playing pick up games (to try and persude the others to start another season) I tend to "forget" the IP rule and we no longer time turns officially (although we do kep an eye on it to make sure their not taken 10mins+).

[Xynok]

We tried giving an extra RR for it, and it didn't work; what good does an extra RR do on turn 6 when you have 4 already? Nothing. Also, it still didn't remove the unsporting nature of the rule, which is what we all hate (similar to knocking in dominoes...as retarded a rule as there is).

So we simlpy made the rule that you must turn your opponents Turn Marker at the end of your turn. It is the responsibility of BOTH players to keep the turn # right, just like illegal setups on Kick-Offs, moving a player 7 when he only moves 6, etc, etc, etc...these are all the same rule ultimately; if you have rules for one, you must have rules for all.

The only IP that causes a Turnover is failing to move a Wild Animal, and being caught in a Foul.

Playing SkiJunkies java client is a clear testimony that crap like the Turn Marker IP is not needed, nor wanted.

[veron]

The only IP that causes a Turnover is failing to move a Wild Animal, and being caught in a Foul.

Hmm, I understand the Foul part, but why it is a turnover if you forget to move the WA first if it is not a turnover when you forget to move the turn marker? I see these two (moving the turn marker and moving WA first) very similar. If moving the turn counter doesn't cause a turnover, then I don't think forgetting to move the WA should either. Rather rule that if you don't move WA first, then you don't move him at all. Of course this would sometimes be a good thing for the WA coach (surrounded by opponents forcing for a two-die block against you). But then you as the opponent have probably done this on purpose and are sure to remind your opponent to take his action with the WA.